Is Civil Partnership actually on the Government's Agenda?

[infamous-el-guapo]

I should be civil unionised by Summer 09..now where will I get some one?

Do you know anyone that desperately needs a visa to remain in the country?

Zing!

Do u need a green card lol?

Sorry I'm already an Irish citizen. Got a passport an all.

[Universal_001]

[quote=White Horse][quote="Universal_001":28nntcp2][quote="White Horse":28nntcp2]

I didn't say rights can be won without legislative reform I said the Dail is NEVER the origin of the reform, they change the laws AFTER outside pressure, wiether thats from the courts, referendums, protests etc...it's always been the case.

I'd also argue strongly a referendum on this is neither nessicary nor desirable.

It is over 10 years since the divorce referendum. Divorce was a very heated issue as it potentially affected every family in the country.

However, the mandate received in the referendum has allowed divorce and re-marriage to be respected by all the people, including those who didn't support it.

Civil partnerships, if they are to be accepted by all Irish people, needs a similar mandate.

Given the very favourable polls at the moment, I don't understand the reluctance of the homosexual lobby to put the issue to the people.[/quote:28nntcp2]

Divorce was specifically banned in the constitution and the only way around that, was to change it, thats not the situation here.
and don't project your own moral values on to the rest of us, most people don't need Johnny down the roads consent on what to do with their own lives.[/quote:28nntcp2]

I knew some muppet would misunderstand that.

The point is that the referedum on divorce helped social cohesion by showing opponents of divorce that the people made an overwhelming decision.

Although you are correct in pointing out that a referendum is not legally required (unless it is like the Labour bill), it would be helpful in gaining acceptance for civil partnerships.

I still don't know why the homosexual lobby is afraid of asking the people for their opinion.[/quote:28nntcp2]

Your perhaps right that it would put it on more solid ground in terms of acceptance, but time would serve the same purpose once something like this is in, it's not being repealed.

What if someone decided it was their right to do a whole lot of things that others objected to? And obviously there are objections to this issue, and have been since we became a republic. So many objections that it's only in the last handful of years we've even heard the subject mentioned. If it's as simple an issue of right and wrong as you make out, why hasn't it been passed already without consulting the plebs? What's stopping it?

Since when was the right to private contract in dispute? the only legitimate public concern on this is the tax break issue, and we generally don't decide tax issues by referendum.

That's if it's merely civil partnership legislation...if the Constitution has to be altered, things like the family being the basic unit of society or the adoption of children by homosexuals etc, then we should have a referendum. Perhaps the liberals are afraid that the will of the majority may not match their own?

You realise your party claims to be liberals don't you?

same sex unions don't stop the family being the basic unit of society, and adoption is not restricted to gender in the constitution, let the adoption board decide on a case by case basis whos fit to adopt.

[madura]

I always laugh when peole infer that people should have a right to adopt

Well it is a slightly funnier notion than people who think others should be excluded from applying to adopt on the grounds of their sexuality. But haven't we had this month's gay adoption thread already? Surely we should try to limit ourselves to just the one a month.

Well, you know why it keeps coming up. It broadens the issue from a private contract that only involves the two parties to the union to one that impinges on a third party, the child, making it a legitimate area of general interest.

[NeilW]

I always laugh when peole infer that people should have a right to adopt

Well it is a slightly funnier notion than people who think others should be excluded from applying to adopt on the grounds of their sexuality. But haven't we had this month's gay adoption thread already? Surely we should try to limit ourselves to just the one a month.

Well, you know why it keeps coming up. It broadens the issue from a private contract that only involves the two parties to the union to one that impinges on a third party, the child, making it a legitimate area of general interest.

I'm not saying that it's not of legitimate interest - just that it's a long time since anyone posted anything interesting about it.

And given that threads on the subject often lead to some posters having to take a little rest for themselves I think it might be worthwhile sticking to the subject of the thread (and away from gay couples adopting) as much as we can.

[Tribunaljunkie]

I note in the announcment of government plans for new legislation in the coming Dail session, there are 17 items.

I did expect to see some sort of comment about the civil unions there, but there is no mention of the promised Civil Partnership Bill on the list:

http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/index.asp?l ... docID=3730



Can anyone update us as to whether any Heads of Bill/ legislation is coming down the tracks?

More importantly, in what time-frame can we see the legislation being implemented in the ROI? For instance, from reading up on the UK experience of civil partnership law (and reading as a non-lawyer), I did note that when the UK Bill was passed, there was a significant "waiting" period during which other laws were changed to allow C/P be introduced. Are we facing the same here?

Any info, heads up, etc, people?

No anti-marriage comments, anti-gay comments here thanks.

The Civil Union Bill 2007 never scheduled to be published this term. The heads of the Bill will be going before the Government in April. It may then be introduced in the 2 April-3 July session of the Dail or Seanad. However it is more likely to be introduced in the Autumn session.

Preliminary work in the bill is currently taking place.

[Tribunaljunkie]

I can understand FF burying civil partnerships.

The economy is going to pot, gang crime is rampant, and Bertie is a laughing stock.

FF are facing electoral meltdown in a couple of years time. They need to keep their rural and traditional voters. Civil partnerships wouldn't help.

I doubt anything will happen during the lifetime of this government.

You obviously are completely out of touch with what is happening. Work in the department has started on the Bill. It will be going before the cabinet in heads of Bill form in April and will be before the Oireachtas probably by the Autumn session. If the current lack of legislation from the government continues, they may introduce it in the 2 April-3 July session to fill a gap. If it is introduced in the April-July session it will be signed into law by the President around the end of July after it has completed its Seanad process. If it is introduced in the September-December session, it is expected that the President will have signed it into law by Christmas. If it is signed into law at the end of July then civil union ceremonies for same sex couples are scheduled to be available from 1 September. If it is signed into law by Christmas, the working date for civil union ceremonies is 1 February 2009.

The issue of adoption by same-sex couples may well be dealt with in the Adoption Bill 2007 being introduced in this session. Gay people are already legally entitled to adopt as individuals. The option of extending that right to couples in civil unions, whether heterosexual or homosexual, is something that is being considered for the Adoption Bill.

The President may decide to refer either or both bills to the Supreme Court to test their constitutionality. All the legal advice available indicates that both bills will be clearly constitutional: they will be assessed for their constitutionality prior to introduction. Traditionally presidents refer bills on adoption to the courts to have them ruled on definitively, so blocking subsequent challenges. The Civil Union Bill may also be referred to the courts. If that is the case its coming into force would be delayed by up to 60 days. But there is no doubt in lawyers' minds that the proposal being worked on with be guaranteed to pass any constitutional test.

[LiquidPaddy]

I note in the announcment of government plans for new legislation in the coming Dail session, there are 17 items.

I did expect to see some sort of comment about the civil unions there, but there is no mention of the promised Civil Partnership Bill on the list:

http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/index.asp?l ... docID=3730



Can anyone update us as to whether any Heads of Bill/ legislation is coming down the tracks?

More importantly, in what time-frame can we see the legislation being implemented in the ROI? For instance, from reading up on the UK experience of civil partnership law (and reading as a non-lawyer), I did note that when the UK Bill was passed, there was a significant "waiting" period during which other laws were changed to allow C/P be introduced. Are we facing the same here?

Any info, heads up, etc, people?

No anti-marriage comments, anti-gay comments here thanks.

The Civil Union Bill 2007 never scheduled to be published this term. The heads of the Bill will be going before the Government in April. It may then be introduced in the 2 April-3 July session of the Dail or Seanad. However it is more likely to be introduced in the Autumn session.

Preliminary work in the bill is currently taking place.

Thanks so much for the update Tribunaljunkie ... you seem to be in the know

I saw the news item about upcoming legislation today (and that was the immediate impetus for asking 'what's da story?').

More generally, my partner Poodle and I celebrated 19 years together this month. After Poodle had to actually ask me how long we'd been together [men!], we have started seriously contemplating making our relationship legally formal.

While personally, I don't care much for 'weddings' per se as yet another site of postmodern consumption and would resist apeing heterosexual wedding ceremonies, I want to see the same rights afforded to us as heterosexual married couples.

If we got somewhere nice to live, I would be interested in fostering or adopting - but that's another day's work. In the meantime, I suppose we should just join the gay marriage queue.

I'm again [color=green]appalled[/color] to see the usual homophobic begrudgers on this site, who shamefully think we should remain denizens and consider ourselves lucky to be here at all. But I shouldn't be surprised should I?