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  1. #891
    myksav myksav is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewolfe View Post
    Maybe if you took your head out of your arse you might actually see what people are saying?
    I ain't that flexible.
    You shifted goalposts to suit your ideology.

    But what the fook would I know, I'm male.
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  2. #892
    Lonewolfe Lonewolfe is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by edg View Post
    if you are sensitive or feelign down you should quit being so sensitive.
    This is exactly what the OP and his buddies believe. Men should be men and stop whining.

    They'll do more harm than good with that outdated nonsense.
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  3. #893
    Lonewolfe Lonewolfe is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by myksav View Post
    I ain't that flexible.
    You shifted goalposts to suit your ideology.

    But what the fook would I know, I'm male.
    No I didn't. I'm not going to waste anymore time discussing it - it's here in black and white for anyone to read.

    The OP has stated that feminism is a major cuase/ if not the main cause of male suicide.

    I asked for examples and the domestic abuse by women was trotted out.

    It hasn't stacked up, as far as research goes, as being a major cause of male suicides (yet undoubtedly it's an area that needs attention).

    You gave some other examples, including advertising, which might be worth exploring if you could stay on topic.
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  4. #894
    JMcDonnell JMcDonnell is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by sargito View Post
    What we do have is a serious problem with male suicide in ireland, predominantly young men and while widespread , is also found to cluster in areas of lower socio economic prospects, especially , but not exclusive to , urban areas.

    Since the 1990s there has been a steady increase in the ratio of male to female suicides, despite incrementally rising socio economic standards.

    Due to a change in prevailing attitudes, and economic conditions that often necessitated both spouses working at the same time brings about changes in the male female dynamic, both in the home but also more importantly the place of work.

    The studies conducted most recently in ireland suggest that this is one of many contributing factors to the difference between male and female suicide rates.


    Its a documented phenomenon.

    To confuse this studied and documented cause of high male suicide rates with a prevailing and pervasive feminist influence in Irish policy making, or indeed in society in general is the error.

    These studies have also shown that the leading factor in most cases is the aversion to going down routes such as asking a GP for assistance, the samritans, or even opening up to a friend. It is clear that for some men the methods currently available for prevantiive help are not fit for purpose, not being engineered to take into consideration issues of self pride, and male independence.

    Which is why movements such as Mens Sheds, despite being ridiculed here, are a welcome new avenue of approach. Providing a place where trust can be built, and a non clinical environment in which some men feel more comfortable and are better able to define the feeling they are having, in language that they are comfortable using.


    Like I said it all in the reports I provided, and plenty more of them if anyone is bothered to look.


    Selah
    ... and have male suicide rates dropped, or suicide rates overall? No. So whatever has been done isn't working. Why not try the gendered Scottish approach?

    Quote Originally Posted by sargito View Post
    There can be no denying the shift in societal relations that increased female participation in traditional male dominated areas , especially in places of employment where the breadwinner model is the core component of many male psyches, which in itself is a natural and necessary component of all our essences.
    It is? Research was linked earlier in this thread showing that prior to the famine women worked outside the home, or at least had economic independence, and indeed had an enormous impact on the national economy, so I'm not sure the concept of a male breadwinner is a natural component of anyone's essences. The influence of the Catholic church which swooped in on a reeling population after the famine was far more responsible for the rise of that notion.
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  5. #895
    edg edg is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    This attitude was indeed expressed more than once on this thread, by some of the anti-feminist posters I have been arguing with. They regard the idea that we should stop putting pressure on men to not express their feelings to be an attempt by feminists to destroy traditional gender roles. This response was one of the main reasons why I said such people should not have anything to do with this issue, because they are likely to make things worse, not better.

    Are you actually reading the same thread as the rest of us?

    When I gave my own story about the HSE and how I was treated as a second class citizen because I am a man, the response was that I should stop being so sensitive.

    So on one hand men are told to break down our gender roles and be more sensitive, and on the other hand told to be less sensitive when we raise some issues men face.

    I think this attitude is harmful to men. Men should be encouraged to express their feelings in their own way.

    This attitude could be a contributor to the issue of male suicide.
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  6. #896
    sargito sargito is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcDonnell View Post
    ... and have male suicide rates dropped, or suicide rates overall? No. So whatever has been done isn't working. Why not try the gendered Scottish approach?


    It is? Research was linked earlier in this thread showing that prior to the famine women worked outside the home, or at least had economic independence, and indeed had an enormous impact on the national economy, so I'm not sure the concept of a male breadwinner is a natural component of anyone's essences. The influence of the Catholic church which swooped in on a reeling population after the famine was far more responsible for the rise of that notion.
    LIke i said, read the papers I provided if you disagree with them , well , then there is no helping you.

    the famine has little or no impact in the minds of young male suicide victims. I doubt very much a pre famine labourer was ever arrested or cautioned by a female contstable, ever lost their job to a woman, or ever had to worry about their position in their socio economic group because of the threat of , real or imagined, losing his statuss to a woman.


    If you are going to have a post modern debate, try and keep it there.
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  7. #897
    edg edg is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by sargito View Post
    What we do have is a serious problem with male suicide in ireland, predominantly young men and while widespread , is also found to cluster in areas of lower socio economic prospects, especially , but not exclusive to , urban areas.

    Since the 1990s there has been a steady increase in the ratio of male to female suicides, despite incrementally rising socio economic standards.

    Due to a change in prevailing attitudes, and economic conditions that often necessitated both spouses working at the same time brings about changes in the male female dynamic, both in the home but also more importantly the place of work.

    There can be no denying the shift in societal relations that increased female participation in traditional male dominated areas , especially in places of employment where the breadwinner model is the core component of many male psyches, which in itself is a natural and necessary component of all our essences.

    The studies conducted most recently in ireland suggest that this is one of many contributing factors to the difference between male and female suicide rates.


    Its a documented phenomenon.

    To confuse this studied and documented cause of high male suicide rates with a prevailing and pervasive feminist influence in Irish policy making, or indeed in society in general is the error.

    These studies have also shown that the leading factor in most cases is the aversion to going down routes such as asking a GP for assistance, the samritans, or even opening up to a friend. It is clear that for some men the methods currently available for prevantiive help are not fit for purpose, not being engineered to take into consideration issues of self pride, and male independence.

    Which is why movements such as Mens Sheds, despite being ridiculed here, are a welcome new avenue of approach. Providing a place where trust can be built, and a non clinical environment in which some men feel more comfortable and are better able to define the feeling they are having, in language that they are comfortable using.


    Like I said it all in the reports I provided, and plenty more of them if anyone is bothered to look.


    Selah
    Thanks serg.

    It looks like we are starting to build a list here of contributing factors. Thanks for your effort with this post.
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  8. #898
    edg edg is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makavelli View Post
    Family annihilators are in the main men.


    "Family Annihilators": Whether mad or sad, it's entitlement and control | Neurological Correlates


    Suicide and murder.

    They love their families so much they cannot live without them?

    Or cold blooded killers, who kill because they can no longer control their families?

    “Family Annihilators”: Understanding What Drives Fathers to Kill | TIME.com
    This helps with the issue of male suicide how?
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  9. #899
    edg edg is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewolfe View Post
    This is exactly what the OP and his buddies believe. Men should be men and stop whining.

    They'll do more harm than good with that outdated nonsense.
    It was ellie08 who said that to me. Not the OP.
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  10. #900
    sargito sargito is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcDonnell View Post
    ... and have male suicide rates dropped, or suicide rates overall? No. So whatever has been done isn't working. Why not try the gendered Scottish approach?


    .
    In less than twelve months?

    You are asking people to sign a petition to scrap the integration of new mechanisms to combat male suicide prevention, after engaging relevant bodies and conducting exhaustive research , because after a few months you expect results ?
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