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  1. #261
    Al Gebra Al Gebra is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by ger12 View Post
    Come on. Now, it's not quite that black and white. Had the 2002 abortion referendum passed it would have removed the threat of suicide as a grounds for legal abortion in this State. 49.58% of the people voted in favour of that referendum, 50.42% against. The government at the time (a Fianna Fáil and PD coalition) naturally supported the amendment, as did the Catholic Church. It was opposed by Fine Gael, the Labour Party, the Green Party and Sinn Féin (although not for the same reasons).

    Many pro-life supporters strongly canvassed against this amendment, led by Dana Rosemary Scallon, an MEP at the time.

    What is failing to be acknowledged is that it is not clear what the electorate wishes to see regarding the threat of suicide, Governments failed to legislate for abortion to implement the X case because of it is not clear what the people wish to see in relation to abortion and risk of suicide.

    It shall be unlawful to terminate the life of an unborn unless such termination is necessary to save the life, as distinct from the health, of the mother where there is an illness or disorder of the mother giving rise to a real and substantial risk to her life, not being a risk of self-destruction.
    For the 1,000,00th time it is not the remit of a referendum to account for why people voted against the above amendment only to count the votes in favour or against the proposal.
    Every single referendum will have a huge amount of reasons bearing on why people vote.
    Only the result counts.
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  2. #262
    ger12 ger12 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSW1916 View Post
    Well it's done and dusted now, will the law of the land next week, will certainly stand up to a Supreme Court challenge, Sin e, the people have spoken through thier democratically elected representatives on the matter. What difference if another four govt TD's throw thier careers on the bonfire?
    I think it'll be found to be unconstitutional in the end. We'll see soon enough.

    The democratically elected members of FG are carrying out the wishes of those that elected them? Hmmm, not sure about that.
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  3. #263
    Porkypie Porkypie is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith-M View Post
    The party is doing something it said it wouldn't do the election. It's hypocrisy and deceit should be highlighted.
    Did Fine Gael promise to not legislate for abortion? | Facts are Sacred
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  4. #264
    ger12 ger12 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gebra View Post
    For the 1,000,00th time it is not the remit of a referendum to account for why people voted against the above amendment only to count the votes in favour or against the proposal.
    Every single referendum will have a huge amount of reasons bearing on why people vote.
    Only the result counts.
    Successive governments viewed legislating for X to be against the wishes of the people which is why they didn't move to legislate.
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  5. #265
    Silvio Dante Silvio Dante is offline
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    Lucinda's speech was very impressive. She'll go far. I'll never agree with much of her economic policies but she's a politician of conviction...
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  6. #266
    davidcameron davidcameron is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Tubbs View Post
    No it hasn't. It has been told to legislate for situations such as those faced by Ms. C in the ABC case - ie. people facing medium term medical threats such as cancer, in that lady's case.

    No one has told the Government to legislate for the suicide issue. Well, apart from the Labour Party of course.
    If a pregnant woman takes her own life, the unborn child dies anyway.

    The Government is merely legislating for what the Supreme Court decided is lawful. Blame the Supreme Court, not the Government.
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  7. #267
    LDF LDF is online now
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    Two months ago we were told the FF PP was evenly split on this issue. Today we find out that almost 70% of FF TD's oppossed the legislation. Does Micheál Martin have a clue what's going on in his own PP?

    FF defers abortion legislation support decision - RTÉ News
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  8. #268
    statsman statsman is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by ger12 View Post
    I think it'll be found to be unconstitutional in the end. We'll see soon enough.

    The democratically elected members of FG are carrying out the wishes of those that elected them? Hmmm, not sure about that.
    On what grounds will it be found unconstitutional?
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  9. #269
    Maothail Lad Maothail Lad is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvio Dante View Post
    Lucinda's speech was very impressive. She'll go far. I'll never agree with much of her economic policies but she's a politician of conviction...
    She voted with se well, it will be interesting to see how many jump ship or are pushed after the committee stage when the suicide clause is not removed.
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  10. #270
    statsman statsman is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvio Dante View Post
    Lucinda's speech was very impressive. She'll go far. I'll never agree with much of her economic policies but she's a politician of conviction...
    In reality, if she is thrown out of FG, she'll go nowhere.
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