Public sector unions' impact on government services

[patslatt]

The official establishment wisdom in most of the Irish media and the government is that state sector unions and government professional associations,along with trade unions generally, are champions of workers' rights. Most journalists are union members, so they are reluctant to criticise unions and the government is happy to garner political support from unions. The unions are being treated with kid gloves,it seems.

While state sector unions champion sectional,selfinterested pay and work practices as is their function,this is not in the public interest as they would have you believe. Indeed,there is evidence that they prevent the delivery of efficient public services:

[] Impact union refused to allow any redundancies in health board consolidations, with the result according to blogs that there are constant turf battles between overlapping admin staffs and administrative chaos.

[] Generally, the complicated work rules and vast number of job descriptions in health services and some other government departments and semi-states make it very difficult to introduce advanced IT systems. One result,for example, is that Irish hospitals employ about double the number of nurses as in Britain and France,per 100,000 population.

[] The education system is burdened with unsackable,burned out teachers, and only a handful of sackings occur in any given year. Does any political leader care about the damage this is doing to childrens' education?

[] Until recent times, the Garda Siochana had a jobs for the boys policy of keeping almost all admin jobs for gardai. In England, half of the admin jobs are done by civilians.

[] Dublin Bus refuses to allow any meaningful competition on bus routes. By contrast,London has an excellent bus service run by private bus fleet operators.

[] ESB operatives in two Dublin gas plants have secured pay of around $140,000 a year, more than that of many senior managers.

[] Private sector workers can only dream about the pensions of public sector worker. Nevertheless, private sector workers may have to contribute a lot more in taxes to fund the pensions of public sector workers than in their own contributions to their private sector pension plans.

[bobbysands81]

The official establishment wisdom in most of the Irish media and the government is that state sector unions and government professional associations,along with trade unions generally, are champions of workers' rights.

I read that far and laughed.

[Pax]

The official establishment wisdom in most of the Irish media and the government is that state sector unions and government professional associations,along with trade unions generally, are champions of workers' rights.

I read that far and laughed.

....

[St Disibod]

While state sector unions champion sectional,selfinterested pay and work practices as is their function,this is not in the public interest as they would have you believe. Indeed,there is evidence that they prevent the delivery of efficient public services:

You're grinding the organ a bit here. How is this thread different to this one: Do trade unions run the country?

Anyway, to address the issue as raised: as you say it is their function. Unions are doing what they were set up to do by trying to get the best deal possible for their members. If the government bends too readily to their demands, that is not the unions' fault, it is the government's. If Ireland loses a match we don't blame the other team for playing too hard- so why blame unions when they get results. If their scorecard is too high, it is because the government bended to demands when they should have stared them down. You've got the wrong man.

The issue of public sector unions is an acute one. When you can't possibly go out of business- heavy-handed striking could destroy a company but the schools and hospitals will always be there once the strike finishes- the temptation to play chicken with your employer on a regular basis seems overpowering. The competition between public sector unions for members means that it is a very results-driven culture, if you're not milking the boss your members will walk. They do understand the benefits of competition after all. And this grates as much on private sector unions as anyone else:

The Irish Times[/i], 5th November 1999, page 6,]Referring to "catch-up" claims Mr Geraghty said: "You can chase pay for a long time - and I want to say this to public service representatives here - but you don't live on the moon. Don't expect that private sector workers are going to sit back and see you going in for your special, and your other special and your other special, plus the other national pay agreements and say, 'That's grand. We don't notice'.

"And I'd say to Jim Dorney, don't be surprised that some young person who left the education system came back with more money after two years because the level of productivity, the level of commitment to change, the development of the economy in the private sector are leading the world.

"We are not doing it in the public sector, and there is a challenge to all of us to do it." He said trade unionists should be committed to ensure that the people had a public service that was worthy of a modern, efficient economy which the private sector worker was giving.

"Then we can soldier together and we can be comrades in ensuring that there is a move forward for all of us.

"But if we descend into mere sectionalism, if we descend into differentials as we did in the past, if we descend into the worst form of dog-eat-dog capitalism, because that is what it is about, the strong will succeed and the poor will go to the wall," Mr Geraghty said.

This outburst led to shock among many public sector trade unionists but it drew cheers from the private sector ones.

But even across the public sector unions there is a variety of attitudes. The Teachers Union of Ireland is one of the best unions in the country in my view. Rather than carp on about pay, they focus the bulk of their attention on resources, training, and making sure that the government provides the means to enforce its own regulations- the Department seems to believe that a penny can buy more year-on-year when the opposite is in fact the case. They also pick up issues of critical importance that are ignored by the other teachers' unions, such as the 'dumping' of special needs students upon community and comprehensive school while the others lighten their loads to chase league tables. The Association of Secondary Teachers Ireland by contrast embittered the schooling atmosphere in Ireland with an ill though-out and unreasonable strike in 2000/2001 and since have only expressed meaningless platitudes like "drink is bad, mmm'kay, won't somebody please think of the children and do something". You can't treat all unions within the public sector as a homogeneous bloc, they each are slightly different- otherwise there wouldn't be competition for members, now would there?

[cain1798]

The official establishment wisdom in most of the Irish media and the government is that state sector unions and government professional associations,along with trade unions generally, are champions of workers' rights. Most journalists are union members, so they are reluctant to criticise unions

Too late at night to even pretend to take this kind of trolling seriously.

Bow down before the mighty unions p.ie users. Muhahahahaha.

[patslatt]

[quote=St Disibod][


The issue of public sector unions is an acute one. When you can't possibly go out of business- heavy-handed striking could destroy a company but the schools and hospitals will always be there once the strike finishes- the temptation to play chicken with your employer on a regular basis seems overpowering. The competition between public sector unions for members means that it is a very results-driven culture, if you're not milking the boss your members will walk. They do understand the benefits of competition after all. And this grates as much on private sector unions as anyone else:

The Irish Times[/i], 5th November 1999, page 6,"kmwmnhc]Referring to "catch-up" claims Mr Geraghty said: "You can chase pay for a long time - and I want to say this to public service representatives here - but you don't live on the moon. Don't expect that private sector workers are going to sit back and see you going in for your special, and your other special and your other special, plus the other national pay agreements and say, 'That's grand. We don't notice'.

"And I'd say to Jim Dorney, don't be surprised that some young person who left the education system came back with more money after two years because the level of productivity, the level of commitment to change, the development of the economy in the private sector are leading the world.

"We are not doing it in the public sector, and there is a challenge to all of us to do it." He said trade unionists should be committed to ensure that the people had a public service that was worthy of a modern, efficient economy which the private sector worker was giving.

"Then we can soldier together and we can be comrades in ensuring that there is a move forward for all of us.

"But if we descend into mere sectionalism, if we descend into differentials as we did in the past, if we descend into the worst form of dog-eat-dog capitalism, because that is what it is about, the strong will succeed and the poor will go to the wall," Mr Geraghty said.

This outburst led to shock among many public sector trade unionists but it drew cheers from the private sector ones.

[/quotekmwmnhc]

No matter how much the private sector union workers may envy public sector workers' pay and gold plated,diamond studded pensions financed out of private sector workers' taxes, there is little they can do about it. If they strike aggressively for comparable pay, their employers will become uncompetitive in the sectors of Ireland's economy open to international competition. This would lead to rising unemployment with a negative multiplier effect on the other sectors of the economy. Unemployment would keep rising until wage demand moderated. The reality is that most private sector unions have little market power.

A good foreign example of this is the United Auto Workers' medical and pension benefits in the USA. To avoid crippling strikes in the 1970s and 1980s, the managements of GM, Ford and Chrysler ceded very generous benefits, leaving it to the next generation of managers to deal with the consequences. All three companies have come close to bankruptcty and were forced to undergo brutal restructurings with huge job losses in the face of Japanese car competition.

Finally,one can only hope, probably in vain, that despite their affiliation with trade unions, Irish journalists will adopt a critical stance towards the self serving work practices of public service unions that inhibit efficient delivery of government services.

[patslatt]

The official establishment wisdom in most of the Irish media and the government is that state sector unions and government professional associations,along with trade unions generally, are champions of workers' rights.

I read that far and laughed.

....

Why don't you respond to a few of the points highlighted instead of silly scoffing? Why are you not annoyed that we are hugely overnursed at a huge cost to the taxpayer? Wouldn't it be better to spend the money on pressing social needs,such as social housing?

[MichaelR]

As I understand, the unions seems to be responsible for very much trouble. From AL leaving Shannon because it could not staya competitive and keep all those jobs and perks, to bad bus services, and all the way to the insane queues for the driving test. To top it all, even the first (1970s) peace process in NI was broken up by trade unions - Loyalist unions but still unions.

Perhaps it's time for some lockouts and other things that might be called "thatcherism"? And - evil revisionist thought - perhaps those Dublin tram operators in 1913 were right?

[St Disibod]

No matter how much the private sector union workers may envy public sector workers' pay and gold plated,diamond studded pensions financed out of private sector workers' taxes, there is little they can do about it. If they strike aggressively for comparable pay, their employers will become uncompetitive in the sectors of Ireland's economy open to international competition.

I think you have completely misread the culture of organised labour in this country. The private sector unions aren’t jealous, they think the public sector unions are getting away with too much. They are fully aware of the damage that unfettered wage hikes would do to the economy. That is why private trade unions spend more and more time looking for state-assisted and employer-assisted training programmes and preaching the virtues of private pension schemes. They wish to see the Irish workforce upskill so there is more money to go around. And then they want to see that money get shared around fairly. They get justifiably narky (bolshy even?) when they consider employers to be making off with too much of the fruits of their efforts, and they get justifiably narky when they see the public sector unions reap the benefits of their efforts without giving anything themselves.

A large part of the problem here is the ratio of public sector trade unionists to private sector ones. If more private sector workers joined unions the general negotiating stance of the union movement would be much more congenial to the needs of businesses in the private sector. It is no mystery to trade unionists that businesses need to make money, after all the workers and the unions rely on the businesses to exist as workers and unions. If the ratio was more proportional to the national workforce, we would see much more emphasis upon pension reform, rather than opposition to it, and a greater emphasis on labour inspectors over benchmarking.

As I understand, the unions seems to be responsible for very much trouble. From AL leaving Shannon because it could not staya competitive and keep all those jobs and perks, to bad bus services, and all the way to the insane queues for the driving test. To top it all, even the first (1970s) peace process in NI was broken up by trade unions - Loyalist unions but still unions.

Perhaps it's time for some lockouts and other things that might be called "thatcherism"? And - evil revisionist thought - perhaps those Dublin tram operators in 1913 were right?

And you could just as easily say that union cooperation helped Aer Lingus to get back on its feet and turn a profit; in fact that would be far more accurate than blaming the unions for Aer Lingus leaving Shannon.

On the other hand the driving test crisis is clearly a case of unreasonable and bull-headed trade unionism of the worst variety- though the government deserved an equal share of the blame for cutting such poor deals at the benchmarking stage.

It does little good to paint trade unionism as one, monotone colour. Some unions pursue just causes, others doggedly pursue self-interest (which is fine as long as all sides play according to the same rules and are willing to compromise) while others still are just unreasonable, bull-headed gombeens that will happily wreck the economy if they can siphon off a few euros as it collapses. So there’s good and bad- a bit like employers really.

[qtman]

As I understand, the unions seems to be responsible for very much trouble. From AL leaving Shannon because it could not staya competitive and keep all those jobs and perks, to bad bus services, and all the way to the insane queues for the driving test. To top it all, even the first (1970s) peace process in NI was broken up by trade unions - Loyalist unions but still unions.

Perhaps it's time for some lockouts and other things that might be called "thatcherism"? And - evil revisionist thought - perhaps those Dublin tram operators in 1913 were right?

Interesting to note that the Department of Justice had to go to the Labour Court so that it could employ clerical staff in Garda stations without having to pay them Garda wages.

The Civil Public and Services Union had argued that because Gardai had previously carried out administrative duties, that people employed to answer phones and do filing should be paid the same as a Garda.

The Equality Tribunal had already ruled in favour of the CPSU, leaving the State with a back pay bill of €300m and an annual bill of €100m.

This all happened in the last fortnight.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/frontp ... 56572.html

Difficult to see what the State could have done about this outrageous claim on the part of the CPSU, given that an independent body ruled on it. Thankfully, the Labour Court saw sense, but it demonstrates the recklessness and pure brass neck of some unions, which I don't believe is in their brief.