Public sector unions' impact on government services

[patslatt]

Many people in the under 40s generations are apathetic about politics and don't bother to inform themselves on government.

Pat - no comment about the public sector pensions figures you quoted being a load of hogwash?

Let's not digress too much from the topic,which isn't all about public sector pensions. It should be sufficient to note that large swathes of the public sector are performing poorly thanks largely to their trade unions' militant opposition to reform of 1970s (or medieval) style work practices and lazy ways. Perversely,these are often among the best paid in the public sector,such as the hospital and HSE managers and admin,the prison guards,the burned out,unsackable teachers etc.

Naturally,many private sector workers resent the fact that such underperforming civil servants and state sector employees enjoy higher pay and vastly better pensions and job security than the vast majority in the private sector. A detailed analysis of pensions liabilities by actuaries that you call for will not change this big picture, which you seem blind to.

Personally, I think that if the underperforming areas of the public sector would submit to thoroughgoing reforms and deliver efficient services, they would be worth their pay.

[NeilW]

Many people in the under 40s generations are apathetic about politics and don't bother to inform themselves on government.

Pat - no comment about the public sector pensions figures you quoted being a load of hogwash?

Let's not digress too much from the topic,which isn't all about public sector pensions.

I'm happy not to digress into the topic of public sector pensions (hardly the most interesting) so long as you're happy to accept that the claims made about them were nonsense. I really dont have experience of the working practices of the public sector in Ireland but I do wonder whether those claims are as over-the-top as the ones about public sector pensions which I can debunk.

[patslatt]

Many people in the under 40s generations are apathetic about politics and don't bother to inform themselves on government.

Pat - no comment about the public sector pensions figures you quoted being a load of hogwash?

Let's not digress too much from the topic,which isn't all about public sector pensions.

I'm happy not to digress into the topic of public sector pensions (hardly the most interesting) so long as you're happy to accept that the claims made about them were nonsense. I really dont have experience of the working practices of the public sector in Ireland but I do wonder whether those claims are as over-the-top as the ones about public sector pensions which I can debunk.

You don't need experience of working practices. You only have to draw some very obvious conclusion in light of mass media coverage,albeit diplomatic and understated, of systemic failure in large swathes of the Irish public sector. Either you do not follow Irish media at all or you can't bring yourself to believe that governments can be hopelessly inept.

[NeilW]

You don't need experience of working practices. You only have to draw some very obvious conclusion in light of mass media coverage

But you followed the "mass media coverage" of the public sector pensions issue and it led you to draw some very erroneous conclusions about public sector pensions. Do you not think that you might be drawing similarly incorrect conclusions about other aspects of the public sector? Surely this issue deserves objective and accurate analysis rather than reading between the lines of "mass media coverage"?

[tumeltyni]

Pat, here's a question for you. Who do you think pays the pensions of people in the private sector that never bother to set one up for themselves? Perhaps the people in the public sector who pay the same taxes as everyone else, as well as making compulsory pension contributions?

[patslatt]

You don't need experience of working practices. You only have to draw some very obvious conclusion in light of mass media coverage

But you followed the "mass media coverage" of the public sector pensions issue and it led you to draw some very erroneous conclusions about public sector pensions. Do you not think that you might be drawing similarly incorrect conclusions about other aspects of the public sector? Surely this issue deserves objective and accurate analysis rather than reading between the lines of "mass media coverage"?

Do you think for instance that media reports on the following facts were erroneous?:

-Huge pay packets of $120,000 plus to Docklands gas plant operatives at ESB reported in the Irish Times
-Prison officers making up to $90,000 a year by exploiting overtime
-Dublin Bus's refusal to allow meaningful competition on its routes contrary to EU competition laws
-Cost overruns averaging about 80% on national roads projects
-Systemic corruption of the planning process that led to Tribunals
-Huge pay of $60,000 for post office letter carriers and poor delivery times of postal services
-Only a small number of civilians employed by the Garda Siochana in admin,versus about 50% civilians in English police
-In health care: long waiting lists for treatment of major illnesses, overcrowded A & Es,recruitment of hospital consultants delayed for years by disputes, poorly equipped hospital consultants in some specialties
-No attempt to consolidate the admin staff of the 14 health boards inherited by the HSE,whereas a private sector consolidation would result in maybe 70% redundancy rate
-An education system burdened by unsackable,burned out teachers (as any teenager can tell you)