Originally Posted by Cato

with all due respect to your siblings and your own undoubted grief, you are merely passing on the responsibility that they should have had for themselves onto others. Again, this is bad faith. There smoking or non-smoking was entirely in their hands and they certainly cannot argue (if they were born after 1950) that they were ignorant of the risks.

As Mill so rightly said;



I. Introductory. Mill, John Stuart. 1869. On Liberty

One possible objection to this is that addiction nullifies the kind of autonomy Mill is talking about.
One way to look at it is that addiction could be likened to an external coercive influence.
Most people continue to smoke not because they want to but they are compelled by one of the strongest psychoactive substance known to man.
There is research that shows that there are some people that cannot give up cigarettes short of being locked away in a room without cigarettes. Certain genes in quitters have shown to be absent in people who have not succeeded. It's not always a simple matter of willpower.

Originally Posted by Rural

My son was peeved that the tennis replaced Bonanza on TG4 today, he wanted to see Little Joe being kidnapped AGAIN!! My son is 23 & sadly, a smoker.

When we start smoking we are young and very stupid & we think that we will live forever, like climbing the impossible tree and then trying to get down.

I loves tomatoes and I'll try that tip, cheers.

I have an older brother who gave up smoking after he had a triple bypass. He was in his 50s at that time. He is 75 now and his health is failing fast, he developed an anyurism near his kidneys. The doctors say that this is a typical problem for people who smoke or who have smoked. They operated but he is well and truely kackered.

Originally Posted by Al Gebra

One possible objection to this is that addiction nullifies the kind of autonomy Mill is talking about.
One way to look at it is that addiction could be likened to an external coercive influence.
Most people continue to smoke not because they want to but they are compelled by one of the strongest psychoactive substance known to man.
There is research that shows that there are some people that cannot give up cigarettes short of being locked away in a room without cigarettes. Certain genes in quitters have shown to be absent in people who have not succeeded. It's not always a simple matter of willpower.

The additives put in by the tobaco industry cemented that addiction for life for most smokers.

Originally Posted by Tawdy

I have an older brother who gave up smoking after he had a triple bypass. He was in his 50s at that time. He is 75 now and his health is failing fast, he developed an anyurism near his kidneys. The doctors say that this is a typical problem for people who smoke or who have smoked. They operated but he is well and truely kackered.

My parents both smoked from a young age, my Dad was 8 but he gave up in his mid 30s, my Mum was early teens and gave up (?) after a heart attack. They are both (circa) 80s at the moment, my Mum had the heart attack 15 years ago & if I called to the house now she would drag me into the garden to scab a fag from me. I'm terrified of Dad finding out as he would completely blame me. It's like having more children.

I'm very sorry about your brother, it shouldn't happen.

Originally Posted by Rural

My parents both smoked from a young age, my Dad was 8 but he gave up in his mid 30s, my Mum was early teens and gave up (?) after a heart attack. They are both (circa) 80s at the moment, my Mum had the heart attack 15 years ago & if I called to the house now she would drag me into the garden to scab a fag from me. I'm terrified of Dad finding out as he would completely blame me. It's like having more children.

I'm very sorry about your brother, it shouldn't happen.

Parents who`ed have em!

Originally Posted by Tawdy

Parents who`ed have em!

Ask my youngest (20) living there, they are driving him insane. But I think he loves them all the same & he is doing something I could not do since I was 22, that is live in the same house. A happy visit suits me, the Mother smoking and using me as an alibi doesn't.

Originally Posted by Rural

Ask my youngest (20) living there, they are driving him insane. But I think he loves them all the same & he is doing something I could not do since I was 22, that is live in the same house. A happy visit suits me, the Mother smoking and using me as an alibi doesn't.

That is how all addicts operate, that`l be you soon.

Originally Posted by RobertW

I don't but I also think its an unrealistic goal.

There is too much money involved for smoking to be banned.

It would be no better than the ban on drugs, all it would succeed in doing is create a black market for criminals to make even more money.

It's not the nicotine or the tobacco plant itself that makes cigarettes so dangerous; it's the many chemicals that are added during the manufacturing process. Perhaps cigarette companies should be encouraged to develop safer smokes, with the incentive of lower taxes or being allowed to advertise, if they can produce a cigarette that is free of carbon monoxide and the other nasties, while still delivering the same taste and nicotine hit. It's hardly a madder idea than prohibition and handing the entire market over to the Mafia.

By the way, I'm not suggesting a magic cigarette that makes smoking as safe as breathing. Just a legal drug that is perhaps 80% safer to use than it is now.

Originally Posted by Mikeoc

It's not the nicotine or the tobacco plant itself that makes cigarettes so dangerous; it's the many chemicals that are added during the manufacturing process. Perhaps cigarette companies should be encouraged to develop safer smokes, with the incentive of lower taxes or being allowed to advertise, if they can produce a cigarette that is free of carbon monoxide and the other nasties, while still delivering the same taste and nicotine hit. It's hardly a madder idea than prohibition and handing the entire market over to the Mafia.

By the way, I'm not suggesting a magic cigarette that makes smoking as safe as breathing. Just a legal drug that is perhaps 80% safer to use than it is now.

That's the thinking behind electronic cigarettes.
Combustion is what produces most of the bad effects of the cigarettes.
Electronic cigarettes use a heating element to heat a liquid containing nicotine, water, flavourings and a substrate like propylene glycol to produce a vapour.
Because nothing is burned then there is no carbon monoxide or tar but mimic the experience of cigarette smoking.
Research is limited on the actual health effects of electronic cigarettes but the lack of combustion does mean that carbon monoxide and tar are not present.
Swedish snus (a variant on traditional snuff) is also an alternative to smoking