Originally Posted by davidcameron

I was referring to the pay ceiling for public service staff.

Really?

I was wondering how fussy you free staters were about the precision of plasterboard when you needed neuro surgeons to do your ceilings.

I thought popes were fek'n fussy about them

Originally Posted by eskrimador

On a serious note, here in the north we have units closing and people dying on trolleys because we cannot get/retain enough senior staff.

Every time increased taxation on the rich or more controls on bankers is suggested, we get spooked by the prospect of these buffoons taking themselves to foreign climes but guess what, doctors can fill in a passport too. They also have the choice to go in to the much more lucrative field and to go the private sector.

Here in the UK, we have an eejit PM, a man who could only hold a proper job for a few months, comparing his salary to men and women who are the cream of the cream and who could possibly make massively higher salaries in much more self serving fields such as finance

New Labour got the UK into this mess with excessive public spending.

Originally Posted by davidcameron

Public spending was out of control. Ireland didn't learn its lesson from the 1970s and 1980s. The budget controls brought about by the Fiscal Compact amendment will ensure that nothing like this ever happens again.

I thought you wanted to discuss hospital consultants' salaries. If you do, please state their pay rates and why you think they are too low/too high.

Originally Posted by Sailor

I thought you wanted to discuss hospital consultants' salaries. If you do, please state their pay rates and why you think they are too low/too high.

I was addressing your point about the Germans.

Did you not read the Irish Times article that I linked? People who earn at least €200,000 can afford to accept reductions in their salaries.

Originally Posted by davidcameron

New Labour got the UK into this mess with excessive public spending.

Among the many ways Lord Blair of Tal Ma Tut got the UK in to a mess was by not addressing the industrial blight that was bequeathed to him (not an excuse, by any means) in much of Britain north of the Watford Gap and allowing unhindered credit to become almost compulsory. One benefit of the crash is not being annoyed by desperate cretins trying to get one to swap/take a fek'n credit card and one can buy a pair of socks without some poor wretch trying to make on take out a store card.

But I digress

Originally Posted by davidcameron

I was addressing your point about the Germans.

Did you not read the Irish Times article that I linked? People who earn at least €200,000 can afford to accept reductions in their salaries.

But they are worth it - certainly if you compare their salary to the pay of senior executives in nationalized banks they're more than worth it. And don't come back and tell me the bankers would leave if we didn't pay them these salaries - who'd have our lot. Whereas the consultants can go to the US and earn a half a million in a plush private facility without working up a sweat. If you're going to discuss salaries for any particular group you're going to have to address, among other things, the quality and importance of the work they perform as well as the market for their services.

Fair enough, Sailor.

Originally Posted by davidcameron

I was addressing your point about the Germans.

Did you not read the Irish Times article that I linked? People who earn at least €200,000 can afford to accept reductions in their salaries.

How do you know what they can afford? I thought you free-market guys did not believe in caps and other skewing of the market principle?

Saying we can't afford to pay them, well that's a different argument, but this "nobody needs to be earning 200K" sounds very Socialist. Should all private sector earners of 200K take an extra paycut also because "people who earn 200K can afford to accept reductions in their salaries"
If the "they-can-afford-it" argument is the one you're advancing, well that has to be the logical implication.

We have difficulty holding on to consultants as it is. These people really are "the brightest and best" with incredible skills and education.

I want the guy who is sawing into my child's skull to remove a brain tumour to be extremely well-paid. So what if "he thinks he's God". My child's life is in his hands so yes, I do sort of regard him as "God"

Originally Posted by gatsbygirl20

How do you know what they can afford? I thought you free-market guys did not believe in caps and other skewing of the market principle?

Saying we can't afford to pay them, well that's a different argument, but this "nobody needs to be earning 200K" sounds very Socialist. Should all private sector earners of 200K take an extra paycut also because "people who earn 200K can afford to accept reductions in their salaries"
If the "they-can-afford-it" argument is the one you're advancing, well that has to be the logical implication.

We have difficulty holding on to consultants as it is. These people really are "the brightest and best" with incredible skills and education.

I want the guy who is sawing into my child's skull to remove a brain tumour to be extremely well-paid. So what if "he thinks he's God". My child's life is in his hands so yes, I do sort of regard him as "God"

Fair point, gg20. However, salaries constitute the bulk of the health and education budgets.

The lower-ranking public sector workers should be protected from further cuts. However, €200,000 (or even as low as €100,000) is a heck of a lot of money. Public sector workers earning those levels can afford to accept reductions. Either you reduce the salary budget or the frontline services budget.

Medicine should be regarded as a vocation.

Fine Gael TD and PAC member Simon Harris has identified this situation as the "two-tier" Croke Park deal, whereby those at the front lines and at the lower pay grades are doing the heavy lifting while those at the top have "yet refused to budge".

"It is most frustrating that Croke Park is clearly working in some areas, but not in others. It has to be dictated by those reforming the fastest and not dictated by the slowest," he said.

"We seem to have a two- tier Croke Park deal at play, with those at the top still overpaid and slow to reform. We can't have social partnership by stealth."

I personally don't care what they are paid, most of them deserve it. However I do have a problem with them being paid privately in a public hospital. All work done by them in a public hospital should be included in their wage.