N.I. Government is thinking of banning smoking in cars. Good or bad?

[Boggle]

A sadly typically wordy but unworthy response . You assume that smokers are more inclined to break the law. If I one used your "logic" or applied "Tommy's basic rules of law making", the smoking ban in public places would not have passed until we hired 50,000 inspectors. Most laws are complied with, regardless of enforcement. The fact that a few will take advantage of low enforcement is not a reason to not pass the law . Morality, societal norms, peer pressure, risk of penalty points, and opportunistic gardai will cover the rest. (but no doubt you will correct me with a reference to your experience as a law maker, motorcycle policeman, car manufacturer, judge or whatever else you did before you bored everyone here with your dogmatic/sneering posts).

Tommy's point has merit.

It's ridiculous, if you are assaulted, robbed or burgeld you haven't a hope of the police doing anything about it and rather than worrying about this you want to add more laws to the books which, in order to enforce, would require ridiculous amounts of police time.

Can we not enforce the basics before we go off on weird little tangents with next to no benefit?

Once the basics are working then fine, it may have merit but until then it is irrelevant.

[Con Gallagher]

Tommy's point has merit.
...
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It may have, but he expressed it in such a poor manner that he managed to come accross as catty and dogmatic at the same time.

Laws are changed for a number of reasons. A country cannot wait until everything is perfect until changing societal flaws. The 6 countries and provinces in another two, obviously never heard of Tommy's Basic Law Making Guide and proceeded to ban smoking in private cars despite not reaching the nirvana of crime free living.
Smoking bans in private vehicles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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[Boggle]

It may have, but he expressed it in such a poor manner that he managed to come accross as catty and dogmatic at the same time.

Laws are changed for a number of reasons. A country cannot wait until everything is perfect until changing societal flaws. The 6 countries and provinces in another two, obviously never heard of Tommy's Basic Law Making Guide and proceeded to ban smoking in private cars despite not reaching the nirvana of crime free living.
Smoking bans in private vehicles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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I'm not asking for everything to be perfect - just that the basics are done to a semi reasonable standard before getting ahead of ourselves. My opinion is simply that unless we stop and rectify the problems with the enforcement of the most basic laws that they will never be done as we keep going from one populist measure to the next.

Once we sort those then move ahead and examine laws like this as they may have merit. Until then I find it hard to think that they are worth wasting breath on as we could do more good for people by doing the basics right.

We have limited resources so we need to use them in the best way.

[Mackers]

ITN news tonight there is a proposal from the British Medical Association to ban smoking in all cars at all times. Even if you are in the car on your own.

[Boggle]

ITN news tonight there is a proposal from the British Medical Association to ban smoking in all cars at all times. Even if you are in the car on your own.

Followed by a ban on smoking indoors. Next logical step after all.

[TommyO'Brien]

A sadly typically wordy but unworthy response . You assume that smokers are more inclined to break the law. If I one used your "logic" or applied "Tommy's basic rules of law making", the smoking ban in public places would not have passed until we hired 50,000 inspectors. Most laws are complied with, regardless of enforcement. The fact that a few will take advantage of low enforcement is not a reason to not pass the law . Morality, societal norms, peer pressure, risk of penalty points, and opportunistic gardai will cover the rest. (but no doubt you will correct me with a reference to your experience as a law maker, motorcycle policeman, car manufacturer, judge or whatever else you did before you bored everyone here with your dogmatic/sneering posts).

A bizarre and illogical rant (again!)

1. I never assumed that smokers are more inclined to break the law. I simply pointed out that how people smoke would make it extremely different to spot in a car. They don't sit in cars waving a cigarette in the air at passers-by saying "hey. Look at me!" That's the reality as anyone who knows any smoker knows.

2. Your comment on the smoking ban is ridiculous. Enforcing a smoking ban in pubs is easy. They are bloody large places with large numbers of people. An inspector can walk in at any time off the street. People who see someone smoking in a pub can report it. The owner can enforce the ban. The staff can enforce the ban. Its dead friggin' easy. Inspectors cannot magically appear in cars to catch people smoking. There is no-one there to catch it. The aren't staff there to enforce a ban. As with anyone doing something in a car they shouldn't, unless it is externally recorded or witnessed there is sweet fuk all that can be done. That is the crux of the matter. People using phones up against their ear have to keep them there so you have a reasonable chance of seeing them. You can also monitor usage externally. People smoking take a drag of a cigarette and then have it in their hand or put it in the ashtray, which would not be visible outside the car.

I'll treat the rest of your snide abuse with the contempt it deserves.

In the real world, a ban on smoking in cars would be unenforceable. The gardaí are barely able to deal with people using phones in cars - which is happening all the time - and that is clearly visible when it is done, because they are busy dealing with other things. Only a tiny minority of people on the phone get caught. And you want an overworked police to devote time to doing something that they would need x-ray vision to see 95% of the time!

The guards have enough to be doing with nanny state insisting that they must keep their eyes out to catch Mary Murphy smoking her own cigarettes in her own car. Their responsibility is to ensure that Mary Murphy is driving safely, insn't drunk and is insured and taxed. It is not their responsibility to monitor Mary Murphy's smoking habit too.

[Mackers]

Followed by a ban on smoking indoors. Next logical step after all.

Going with this kind of logic there doesn't seem much to stop that step. Except the 10 million extra police to enforce it.

[Mackers]

Followed by a ban on smoking indoors. Next logical step after all.

Going with this kind of logic there doesn't seem much to stop that step. Except the 10 million extra police to enforce it.

[Con Gallagher]

ITN news tonight there is a proposal from the British Medical Association to ban smoking in all cars at all times. Even if you are in the car on your own.

The Welsh will consider it, if a 3 year education drive does not work.

BBC News - Welsh government targets smoking in cars when children present