I'm quite worried about these Fine gael plans for health

[just4ever]

Are you currently employed? Ask your boss what effect paying for health insurance will have on his business.

No unfortunately I have had to become one of the thousands that have had to seek job seekers allowance. I do still have private health insurance. Quinn insurance alone have over 8000 group schemes in place. If this scheme was implemented where every cent paid by the employer on health insurance was entirely tax deductable then I don't see the big issue with it.

[pjoz]

FF/FG are two sides of the one coin.If FG get into power to have their cronies who need to be looked after.

Quinn has become a major player in insurance in recent years.When you look at major financial failures around the globe many have a common link, a dominating personality. The financial stability of Quinn group can at best be guessed at and what FG propose exposes the Irish public to further unnecessary risk

[LDF]

FF/FG are two sides of the one coin.If FG get into power to have their cronies who need to be looked after.

Quinn has become a major player in insurance in recent years.When you look at major financial failures around the globe many have a common link, a dominating personality. The financial stability of Quinn group can at best be guessed at and what FG propose exposes the Irish public to further unnecessary risk

Quinn group have about 20% of the health insurance market, Hibernian another 20% and VHI hold the balance. What exactly is your definition of "domination"?

Whatever you may think about Quinn I respect him for bringing jobs to the border region at a time when your crowd were kidnapping, bombing and murdering and the only economic activity being carried out was smuggling, diesel laundering and racketeering.

I know who I respect more.

[pjoz]

He dominates his group,and he's entitled to. I respect him as a businessman and wish him and his family further success .But a somewhat common feature of financial failures is the prevelance of such a figure.

Worst case scenario, if the group were to fail, consumers in this state are exposed to significant risk as are a number of industrial sectors.FG with this plan are further exposing the Irish public unnecessarily

[LDF]

He dominates his group,and he's entitled to. I respect him as a businessman and wish him and his family further success .But a somewhat common feature of financial failures is the prevelance of such a figure.

Worst case scenario, if the group were to fail, consumers in this state are exposed to significant risk as are a number of industrial sectors.FG with this plan are further exposing the Irish public unnecessarily

Okay PJ. Do you accept that government isn't always the best service provider - either through inertia, incompetence or sheer stupidity, the state get things wrong?

Quinn has made mistakes but they pale in comparison to the mistakes made by successive governments in how our health services and other services are provided.

[pjoz]

Of course I can accept that. However,opening up health to private enterprise is wrong.Certain public utilities need to be provided by the state.Unfortunately our political structures allows for inertia, incompetence and sheer stupidity to thrive,hence the state gets things wrong.But just because the state have got things wrong in the past doesnt mean it always has to be that way.

[wombat]

If this scheme was implemented where every cent paid by the employer on health insurance was entirely tax deductable then I don't see the big issue with it.

Read up on the U.S. auto industry and you will see what the problem with employer paying is. Regarding it being tax deductable, that means the taxpayer pays.

[Supermanpolitician]

Okay PJ. Do you accept that government isn't always the best service provider - either through inertia, incompetence or sheer stupidity, the state get things wrong?

Quinn has made mistakes but they pale in comparison to the mistakes made by successive governments in how our health services and other services are provided.

Intertesting point and one proved time and again throughout history.

The cummulative mistakes made by private industry are always a farction of the cost of having a government do it for you.

E.g. Banks. If the banks were allowed to fail, within 3 years we would probably have and adequate banking system at a cost of billions to stock and bond holders. Instead it will cost tens of billions and drag on for at least 10 years.

[FutureTaoiseach]

Of course I can accept that. However,opening up health to private enterprise is wrong.Certain public utilities need to be provided by the state.Unfortunately our political structures allows for inertia, incompetence and sheer stupidity to thrive,hence the state gets things wrong.But just because the state have got things wrong in the past doesn't mean it always has to be that way.

State-control = union-control/blackmail. I disagree with you. Public-sector companies are run in the interests of the workers - not the consumer. They also serve the interests of political-patronage and kickbacks for party-supporters. Where FG are wrong, however, is their programme for expansion of non-means-tested medical cards.

[hiding behind a poster]

State-control = union-control/blackmail. I disagree with you. Public-sector companies are run in the interests of the workers - not the consumer. They also serve the interests of political-patronage and kickbacks for party-supporters.

Rubbish. State control is not a recipe for any of that, as is shown by the efficient and effective state-run health services all over Europe and the world. What IS a recipe for union control is a weak, vacillating government, with a Taoiseach who runs away from taking hard decisions (just like his predecessor) because he wants to keep unions in the tent.

And that's a consequence of the government that YOU were a cheerleader for.