I'm quite worried about these Fine gael plans for health

[LDF]

Was anyone else surprised that the primary means of communication between GP's and hospitals seems to be the good old letter? I ask this in the context of the Tallaght scandal - 58,000 unopened letters stretching back to 2003. Have these people not heard of e-mail?

It's probably a minor point but a good indication of how much reform our health service needs to be subjected to.

[Mitsui2]

If Enda Kenny said black was white you would believe him. You are just a mindless blueshirt drone. The Fine Gael leadership laughs at people like you behind closed doors.

From "I'm quite worried about FG's health plan" to "mindless blueshirt drone!" in the space of a single post! You FF drones are getting thinner and thinner skins. Don't you realise you're supposed to maintain the air of fretful neutrality for a few pages of the thread at least??? Don't they teach you guys anything any more?

Really - it's so hard to get good sockpuppets these days!

[Nugget]

From "I'm quite worried about FG's health plan" to "mindless blueshirt drone" in the space of a single post! You FF drones are getting thinner and thinner skins. Don't you realise you're supposed to maintain the air of fretful neutrality for a few pages of the thread at least???

Really - it's so hard to get good sockpuppets these days!

I despise FF and FG equally. They are pretty much the same party as far as I'm concerned.

[toughbutfair]

My insurer in Netherlands is Delta Llyod.

Cost per month for lowest package is 90EUR/month and this covers all short term items from dental to outpatient etc. The next package which includes a lot of dental cover is 100EUR/month. However in that payment scheme the first EUR150 of treatment is borne by the individual. To reduce the cost/month you can increase this first payment. There are also discounts for families but I do not think that these is much of a discount for adults; ratherfor the children. Long term treatment (wheelchairs long term hospital) is covered by the state.

The problem is not the cost. As pointed out taxes levies VHI etc cost similar though the level of cover is ridiculously low in Ireland compared to the Netherlands. The problem is the Netherlands historically has had the best health care system in the world. When this system was introduced a few years ago its system was several percentage points ahead of its rivals. since then premiums have steadily risen as the lower policies do not make money. Thus insurance companies are loosing money and in the long term are not secure. In effect market competition has not been successful (up to now). Despite this the system is still the best in the world.

Ireland does not have a system comparable to the Dutch. It is ~20% points below the Dutch system. Changing the way insurance will work is not a key issue for Ireland and will not solve the basic endemic problem; one of investment. The Irish health care system needs gross investment and as indicated by the Dutch system, changing insurance is not the key to raising this capital. That I am afraid must come directly from public expenditure. It is the ability of the system to cope with the long term items that provides the basis for good/bad health care.

We already spend too much on health. We spend (according to figures quoted here) 15bn a year. WE only have a tax take of 30bn. How much did we spend a decade ago? probably less than half. Let's go back to 1990s level.

Our focus should be on getting our books in order not throwing money at health in search of a perfect system. The 1990s were fine.

[Fed Up]

Hi Folks,

Some basic facts for you:

1. If you do not have a medical card, a stay in a public hospital costs €75 per night but is capped at €750 per annum.

2. A €780 annual policy will get you full cover in a semi-private room in a private hospital.

3. Health insurance has community pricing. i.e., I pay the same price as my granny does, previous claims don't matter, etc.

Some opinions:

1. No civil service in the world can run a health service as well as a regulated private sector.

2. I am in favour of privatising and regulating health care. As much as I dislike Harney, her regulation of the health insurance market is excellent (bar the fact that the VHI are not regulated by the financial regulator).

3. Doing it through tax is not a good idea (self-employed people, etc) and we can't see the tax going directly to the HSE (eg, our PRSI being used to fund NAMA).

[Mitsui2]

...stop being an attention seeker.

It was your good self he was drawing attention to. Though given the big neon "FF Dirty Tricks Dept" sign on your posts I think he was gilding the lily myself.

[hiding behind a poster]

What inaccuracies? He claims he has a cousin living in Amsterdam who says everything over there in hunky dory and it will actually cost ordinary people less money. Pardon me if I don't take a clown like supermanpolitician very seriously. The lad is clearly not the brightest.

I said YOUR claims - not his.

[hiding behind a poster]

What annoys me about this thread is that its got me singing the famous old Monty Python song - worth listening to all the way to the end, mind.....

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0e10baH6cE"]YouTube- I'm So Worried, Monty Python[/ame]

[Nugget]

It was your good self he was drawing attention to. Though given the big neon "FF Dirty Tricks Dept" sign on your posts I think he was gilding the lily myself.

You do realise that genuine left wingers despise Fine Gael far more than FFers do?

[Mitsui2]

You do realise that genuine left wingers despise Fine Gael far more than FFers do?

I know a few who don't - though I guess in your self-referential framework that will simply make them fake left wingers.