I'm quite worried about these Fine gael plans for health

[disgruntledcitizen]

If Enda Kenny said black was white you would believe him. You are just a mindless blueshirt drone. The Fine Gael leadership laughs at people like you behind closed doors.

excellent insulting as opposed to debating very impressive

[Nugget]

Maybe....but I didn't just start a thread with multiple inaccuracies in the first post.

If you can't back up what you say, people like me will take the p!ss out of you!

Sorry kiddo, you brought it on yourself!

I'm not convinced you have the intelligence or personality to take the piss out of anybody. Anyway this thread is not about you so stop being an attention seeker.

[disgruntledcitizen]

I lived in Holland for a few years and my experience of their health service is entirely positive.

You are correct in being concerned about the role of the private sector. Strict controls need to be in place when involving the private sector to ensure that clinical need rather than profits determine treatment.

However, the public sector often put it's employees before patients. It is not perfect either.

agreed we lived in Holland for a number of years also and found the system to be generally very good, far better than here be you private or public, and more cost effective (personally speaking)...

sure it would need to be policed closely to prevent abuse here by either private companies or gombeen jobs for the boys types but i do believe it would work and work well

[just4ever]

Nonsense - its your health - your responsibility - why should your employer have to cater to that aswell.

You wont stay with the same employer all your life - you may become self employed at the various stages in your life - you may even be unemployed at certain stages - under the FG plan - you will pay when you have means to do so -it is graduated - but you will stay within the system at all times - you will have access ,without any upfront "registration costs" when it comes to GPs and primary medical care - thus freeing up beds in more acute and intensive medical care units.

The Government has to get out of the supply side of the medical system - its much better to be a proper regulator and purchaser -you cant play both sides of the system without being compromised - the British found that out and are slowly reforming the NHS and did row back on many of the changes made by the Tories - you have more power over the system and making it responsive and flexible to the needs of the community when you are buyer - you insist on what you need - and its up to the supplier to come up with the goods or he goes to the wall - medical facilities - both public and private - will be paid per patient - its up to them to get their maths right - there will no budget given at the start of the year and see how ya go - they will be paid per patient and per medical procedure - the way it should be.

Your Health is your responsibility - and I generally find if people feel that they are stakeholders and they can see directly how their money is spent - they tend to be alot more engaged and active in their responses the system than when they get some something for nothing.

Mail James Reilly about your concerns - he doesn't bite and he'll give you an honest answer to your concerns - also he is doing a public roadshow at the moment on the Faircare proposal and you are free to go along and grill him to your hearts content - He is very very good like that.

My suggestion is that it would be entirely tax deductable for the employer, many employers already provide health insurance to their employees. It would be provided as part of social welfare to the unemployed.

[hiding behind a poster]

I'm not convinced you have the intelligence or personality to take the piss out of anybody. Anyway this thread is not about you so stop being an attention seeker.

But he's right about the inaccuracies in your opening post - which IS what this thread is about. So why don't you either back them up, or withdraw them?

[Nugget]

But he's right about the inaccuracies in your opening post - which IS what this thread is about. So why don't you either back them up, or withdraw them?

What inaccuracies? He claims he has a cousin living in Amsterdam who says everything over there in hunky dory and it will actually cost ordinary people less money. Pardon me if I don't take a clown like supermanpolitician very seriously. The lad is clearly not the brightest.

[toughbutfair]

WE are spending too much on our health service. Somebody here quoted 15bn a year, that is half our tax take. The current system has failed.

[goosebump]

FG's plans are very appealing, but I really can't see them having the resolve to carry them through.

Universal Health Insurance systems must rely heavily on the private sector because that's the only way they are affordable.

That means that the days of the 'County Hospital' are numbered, which is a lightening rod of controversy for FG's numerous rural TDs.

I imagine we'll end up with some sort of fudge, and that private medicine will continue to consolidate its position by piggy backing on the public system.

Personally, I view my health as my responsibility and my concern, and am happy to insure my family in case they need private care. I am also happy to pay taxes to contribute to health insurance policies for people who are less well off, provided that care is provided by the private sector

I am not happy to pay taxes to contribute to the upkeep of union-run county hospitals and salaries for HSE oddjobs who get 35 days holiday per year, a gold plated pension and spend most of their time wandering around looking for something to do.

[riven]

My insurer in Netherlands is Delta Llyod.

Cost per month for lowest package is 90EUR/month and this covers all short term items from dental to outpatient etc. The next package which includes a lot of dental cover is 100EUR/month. However in that payment scheme the first EUR150 of treatment is borne by the individual. To reduce the cost/month you can increase this first payment. There are also discounts for families but I do not think that these is much of a discount for adults; ratherfor the children. Long term treatment (wheelchairs long term hospital) is covered by the state.

The problem is not the cost. As pointed out taxes levies VHI etc cost similar though the level of cover is ridiculously low in Ireland compared to the Netherlands. The problem is the Netherlands historically has had the best health care system in the world. When this system was introduced a few years ago its system was several percentage points ahead of its rivals. since then premiums have steadily risen as the lower policies do not make money. Thus insurance companies are loosing money and in the long term are not secure. In effect market competition has not been successful (up to now). Despite this the system is still the best in the world.

Ireland does not have a system comparable to the Dutch. It is ~20% points below the Dutch system. Changing the way insurance will work is not a key issue for Ireland and will not solve the basic endemic problem; one of investment. The Irish health care system needs gross investment and as indicated by the Dutch system, changing insurance is not the key to raising this capital. That I am afraid must come directly from public expenditure. It is the ability of the system to cope with the long term items that provides the basis for good/bad health care.

[arcadeparade]

2 big problems with this plan.

Firstly, private health care has higher administration cost plus a cut fot profit, so it will always be more expensive that a comparable public system.

Secondly, Ireland has had a severely underfunded health care service for years, privatising the gains wont change that.