Prime Time health special

[qtman]

It was a sickening show that should cause us to feel shame. However, it has little to do with the Celtic Tiger and more to do with how the resoures generated by the Celtic Tiger have been misused. It seems to be more about successive governments failure to tackle the vested interests that prevent a rational delivery of services. The idea that a consultant effecitvely receives a subsidy from the public system to allow him/her to conduct private business is typically Irish. This is a peverse incentive that directly leads to longer waiting times for public patients. I think it is time to remind consultants, doctors and nurses that they are employees and that the system is not run primarily for their benefit.

Who's going to say anything about nurses? They're looking for a 10% pay raise to do 10% less work, and every FF/FG politician the length and breadth of the country is calling on the Minister to look favorably on the Nurse's situation, because they know if they don't, people won't vote for them!!

And what stick to you use to beat up the consultants? Do you threaten not to pay them at all? Fine they'll say: we'll just do private practice.

The only way it will change is if people vote for change, but the electorate has never shown an interest in voting for change in the health service.

Oh do F**K off!

The only nurses prepared to work for the pittance paid by the HSE are Philipino! All the Irish Nurses head for developed Countries as soon as they get their qualifications.

Actually, only 1 of the Nurses unions is involved in this dispute. The others are quite prepared to abide by the recommendations of the Labour Court.

Refusing to do things like answer telephones and enter data into computers 10 weeks out from a General Election demonstrates a fairly cynical attitude to public service by any measure.

And I can only respond to your claim that all Irish nurses leave the country once they qualify with observational evidence. When our child was born 8 months ago we were seen to by up to 8 nurses, all of whom were Irish. In fact, I don't remember meeting any nurses of foreign nationality at any time during our 5 day stay in hospital.

[doheochai]

Recent personal experience:

My 14 year old daughter has been suffering from serious pains in her joints and spent two days in hospital 3 weeks ago for tests. We attended the medical clinic on Tuesday only to be told that it will be another two weeks before we get the test results.

The doctors know there is something serious wrong with he but when we asked could she be treated as an emergency - we were told she was. If we were to wait for an outpatients appointment it would take 3 months.

Five weeks for a blood test for a seriously ill patient and all they can do is prescribe pain killers.

[civic_critic]

Recent personal experience:

My 14 year old daughter has been suffering from serious pains in her joints and spent two days in hospital 3 weeks ago for tests. We attended the medical clinic on Tuesday only to be told that it will be another two weeks before we get the test results.

The doctors know there is something serious wrong with he but when we asked could she be treated as an emergency - we were told she was. If we were to wait for an outpatients appointment it would take 3 months.

Five weeks for a blood test for a seriously ill patient and all they can do is prescribe pain killers.

So what are you going to do about it? Nothing much I imagine, submit like most southerners. And on it goes.

Or you could gather ten people in a similar situation with a video camera and chain yourselves from one side of Kildare street to the other, stopping the traffic and causing serious disruption. A nod to the media just at the beginning of the protest wouldn't go amiss.

Or you could pelt Ahern and Harney with rotten eggs (50 to hundred of them) wherever they appear today and keep doing so until something changes.

Or you could threaten to burn down the HSE or kick the ************************ out of Drumm or anyone else who is currently putting your daughters well-being at risk.

Or nothing, submit.

[qtman]

Recent personal experience:

My 14 year old daughter has been suffering from serious pains in her joints and spent two days in hospital 3 weeks ago for tests. We attended the medical clinic on Tuesday only to be told that it will be another two weeks before we get the test results.

The doctors know there is something serious wrong with he but when we asked could she be treated as an emergency - we were told she was. If we were to wait for an outpatients appointment it would take 3 months.

Five weeks for a blood test for a seriously ill patient and all they can do is prescribe pain killers.

So what are you going to do about it? Nothing much I imagine, submit like most southerners. And on it goes.

Or you could gather ten people in a similar situation with a video camera and chain yourselves from one side of Kildare street to the other, stopping the traffic and causing serious disruption. A nod to the media just at the beginning of the protest wouldn't go amiss.

Or you could pelt Ahern and Harney with rotten eggs (50 to hundred of them) wherever they appear today and keep doing so until something changes.

Or you could threaten to burn down the HSE or kick the ************************ out of Drumm or anyone else who is currently putting your daughters well-being at risk.

Or nothing, submit.

God forbid that people might just vote for someone other than FF or FG.

[irishpeoplearewhingers]

Recent personal experience:

My 14 year old daughter has been suffering from serious pains in her joints and spent two days in hospital 3 weeks ago for tests. We attended the medical clinic on Tuesday only to be told that it will be another two weeks before we get the test results.

The doctors know there is something serious wrong with he but when we asked could she be treated as an emergency - we were told she was. If we were to wait for an outpatients appointment it would take 3 months.

Five weeks for a blood test for a seriously ill patient and all they can do is prescribe pain killers.

So what are you going to do about it? Nothing much I imagine, submit like most southerners. And on it goes.

Or you could gather ten people in a similar situation with a video camera and chain yourselves from one side of Kildare street to the other, stopping the traffic and causing serious disruption. A nod to the media just at the beginning of the protest wouldn't go amiss.

Or you could pelt Ahern and Harney with rotten eggs (50 to hundred of them) wherever they appear today and keep doing so until something changes.

Or you could threaten to burn down the HSE or kick the ************************ out of Drumm or anyone else who is currently putting your daughters well-being at risk.

Or nothing, submit.

I already have done something about it- I am insured up to the neck.

[flat to the mat]

It totally escapes me how you people can start to talk about a real heart breaking story shown nationally about a real person with a life sentence because of the state of the health system in our country. People like you who come on here all knowing about everything, statistics this and persentages that. This is a wife and a mother, the sad thing is that this is not an isolated story. In a conversation I had recently with Liz McManus she said that she had no worries she was lucky enough to have the right post code. We hear and read stories like this everyday are we all of us just shrug our sholders, we should hang our heads in shame. If we all took responsibility for the state of our health system we might just live long enough to see change.

[doheochai]

Recent personal experience:

My 14 year old daughter has been suffering from serious pains in her joints and spent two days in hospital 3 weeks ago for tests. We attended the medical clinic on Tuesday only to be told that it will be another two weeks before we get the test results.

The doctors know there is something serious wrong with he but when we asked could she be treated as an emergency - we were told she was. If we were to wait for an outpatients appointment it would take 3 months.

Five weeks for a blood test for a seriously ill patient and all they can do is prescribe pain killers.

So what are you going to do about it? Nothing much I imagine, submit like most southerners. And on it goes.

Or you could gather ten people in a similar situation with a video camera and chain yourselves from one side of Kildare street to the other, stopping the traffic and causing serious disruption. A nod to the media just at the beginning of the protest wouldn't go amiss.

Or you could pelt Ahern and Harney with rotten eggs (50 to hundred of them) wherever they appear today and keep doing so until something changes.

Or you could threaten to burn down the HSE or kick the ************************ out of Drumm or anyone else who is currently putting your daughters well-being at risk.

Or nothing, submit.

I haven't submitted at any stage over my past 25 years involvement in politics.

Unfortunately at this moment my daughters health is my priority.

The campaigning activity can come later when this is no longer an issue!

[candid]

It was a sickening show that should cause us to feel shame. However, it has little to do with the Celtic Tiger and more to do with how the resoures generated by the Celtic Tiger have been misused. It seems to be more about successive governments failure to tackle the vested interests that prevent a rational delivery of services. The idea that a consultant effecitvely receives a subsidy from the public system to allow him/her to conduct private business is typically Irish. This is a peverse incentive that directly leads to longer waiting times for public patients. I think it is time to remind consultants, doctors and nurses that they are employees and that the system is not run primarily for their benefit.

Who's going to say anything about nurses? They're looking for a 10% pay raise to do 10% less work, and every FF/FG politician the length and breadth of the country is calling on the Minister to look favorably on the Nurse's situation, because they know if they don't, people won't vote for them!!

And what stick to you use to beat up the consultants? Do you threaten not to pay them at all? Fine they'll say: we'll just do private practice.

The only way it will change is if people vote for change, but the electorate has never shown an interest in voting for change in the health service.

Oh do F**K off!

The only nurses prepared to work for the pittance paid by the HSE are Philipino! All the Irish Nurses head for developed Countries as soon as they get their qualifications.

We have had massive increases in the amount of taxpayer's hard earned "invested" in Health - but we HAVE NOT had new Doctors trained, new Nurses trained, new Wards built, or new Operating Theatres built.
No, under the FFailures and the pDiddlys, we have seen a massive increase in the number of accountants and administrators in the Health Service (accounting for nearly all of the increase in Health spending over the last 10 years - except the bit for the Treatment Purchase Fund, which is, in reality, a taxpayer subsidy to the people who fund the PDs).


Remind me: What was it Bertie did before he became a politician .......

Hate to bore you with stastistics but I can't let you away with those lies....

Staffing: largest increase in doctors and healthcare

professionals



Total medical/dental[2]

1997: 4,976

2006: 7,379 UP 2,394, 48%

Consultant posts (included above)

1997: 1,292

2006: 2,073 UP 781, 60%

Nursing

1997: 27,346

2006: 35,806 UP 8,460, 31%

Therapy professions

1997: 118

2006: 377 UP 259, 220%

More than 4 times the number of A&E CONSULTANTS

1997: 11 (no new A&E consultant posts under Rainbow)

2006 48 UP 37

Largest increase in health resources ever

1997 2007

Gross current €3.5bn €13.8bn up 4 times

Capital €167m €580m up 3.5 times

Spending 8.9% of GNP - same as OECD average

80% is Government compared to OECD average of 73%

Highest level of capital spending as a % of GNP in OECD with Norway

Mental health spend was €326m in 1997 up to €835m now

[gubugirl]

I don't think the increased spend on the health service since '97 is something FF/PDs should be boasting about. The problem is not so much the money spent, it's where that money is going in the health service.

The PD Tanaiste's own wife pointed that up in the Brennan report.

And it's especially hardly a boast to list the increase in spending on mental health. The PD Minister responsible, Tim O'Malley has already made his views on mental health clear.

[Limerick Lad]

Hate to bore you with stastistics but I can't let you away with those lies....

Staffing: largest increase in doctors and healthcare

professionals



Total medical/dental[2]

1997: 4,976

2006: 7,379 UP 2,394, 48%

Consultant posts (included above)

1997: 1,292

2006: 2,073 UP 781, 60%

Nursing

1997: 27,346

2006: 35,806 UP 8,460, 31%

Therapy professions

1997: 118

2006: 377 UP 259, 220%

More than 4 times the number of A&E CONSULTANTS

1997: 11 (no new A&E consultant posts under Rainbow)

2006 48 UP 37

Largest increase in health resources ever

1997 2007

Gross current €3.5bn €13.8bn up 4 times

Capital €167m €580m up 3.5 times

Spending 8.9% of GNP - same as OECD average

80% is Government compared to OECD average of 73%

Highest level of capital spending as a % of GNP in OECD with Norway

Mental health spend was €326m in 1997 up to €835m now

And yet the Health Service is still in crisis, limping from one disaster to another. So if money is not the problem, it's how Health Service provision was politically managed by the current incumbents for the last ten years that has us still in our present malaise.

Quoting statistics, comparing staffing levels years ten years ago with now is pointless as it implies that if the FF/PD Coalition hadn't gained power that the figures would have remained the same but just as has happened under this Government, any Government elected would have had to increase staffing levels if only to meet increased demand from an expanding population.

Ten years is long enough to dramatically change any Health Service and if they couldn't do it ten years they're unlikely to do any better with another five years in power.