There's an 'Age is not a contraceptive' campaign in the UK.

[femmefatale]

I agree completely with you, there can be nothing more disordered, ugly and evil than the abuse of the innocents.

Very true.

[Christine Murray]

I again went into the IFPA site to see if there were fact sheets for older women regarding this issue but failed to find anything conclusive .

IFPA - Irish Family Planning Association

I would think that the figures here for later unplanned pregnancies might be considerably lower than in the UK; but I wrote to them anyway
to ask if this was an area of concern, or if a fact sheet tailored to older ladies was supplied. I also had a look at the Positive Options site to see if
there was anything specific there but found mostly Youth outreach, with the range of services available to extended family members and partners .

The Crisis Pregnancy agency does offer a leaflet for the 35-55 age group but it is the only thing I could find :

Crisis Pregnancy Ireland – Crisis Pregnancy Agency

[Cato]

Now what have I landed myself in. O.K. here goes, many view the family as a bastion of oppression, marxists and deconstructionists, especially, their influence in politics and education in Europe has been dominant post WW11 and not as many believe, the Church or Churches...

Thanks for that. Very interesting. That's your analysis; what are your solutions? What would you advocate that the state do or not do? What would you advocate that society and individuals do or not do?

[Christine Murray]

I sometimes think its an existenalist problem, our young male politicians who have obviously been hot-housed in the political system would
rather not think about older women having sex lives or indeed facing crisis pregnancies. It's therefor easier to site the discussion and
the political funding in the area of youth (the immorality of people who are open to influence by unscrupulous organisations etcetera...)

it is good to see that the Irish Crisis Pregnancy agency has researched in the area and produced adequate support literature for older
women here :

Crisis Pregnancy Ireland – Crisis Pregnancy Agency

[west'sawake]

First off Cato I don't believe the State or society as you put it has the solutions to all our problems, nor do I expect you do, rather it should be neutral and a facilitator but not an ideological imposer proper, my own attitdue for what its worth is when asked the question what is wrong with the world, the answer is I am, the State often is used as an excuse for our own moral lethargy and indifference, this was brought home to me when some secular utopian was pilloring and denigrating Mother Teresa of Calcutta as and individual who perpetuated social injustice by letting the State off the hook, a few hundred more like her and the State wouldn't intefere as much and be as inefficent as it is.

Now moving to the particular in relation to the culture of quick fix contraception and abortion, I think there should be a level playing field in terms of real education on this subject, setting aside any religious reasons, there is the whole question of human anthropology, the nature of the human person and how they flourish. Confucius once wrote that the first signs of cultural decay is when language no longer means what it says, women are sold jargon such as reproductive health, and that encompasses the pill, abortion, hormonal patches, I.U.Ds, etc all the anathaema of holistic health and all benefitting an industry and an agenda , of course the negative consequences of dependancy on these quick fixes is in the fine print, but that is non good when the culture,, the state and its agencies, the media and the entertainment industry push them. I know a few doctors who don't and they are few, and the ridiculing and negative pressure from their peers is sad. Don't get me wrong here, I am absolutely against a theocracy or moral prohibitions, what I am in favour of is proper information, not deconstructed to suit an agenda or industry, so that really informed decisions can be made. We also see this in relation to the vaccine for cervical cancer, again I do not believe in moral rigorism, i.e assuming the worst motives of parents and young girls in taking it, i.e. that it is a license to be mroe promiscuous, but paretns and girsl do need to be told that the HPV strains it targets are those that are transmitted sexually, that it could be akin to taking a sledgehammer to crack a walnut and that pareents perhpas should also put their 12 year olds on the pill in case they are raped. Behaviour is what needs to change, real love and responsibility is what works, and if we are pessimists and think and fear the worst then its pop the pill and take the needle time, perpetually.

[Christine Murray]

First off Cato I don't believe the State or society as you put it has the solutions to all our problems, nor do I expect you do, rather it should be neutral and a facilitator but not an ideological imposer proper, my own attitdue for what its worth is when asked the question what is wrong with the world, the answer is I am, the State often is used as an excuse for our own moral lethargy and indifference, this was brought home to me when some secular utopian was pilloring and denigrating Mother Teresa of Calcutta as and individual who perpetuated social injustice by letting the State off the hook, a few hundred more like her and the State wouldn't intefere as much and be as inefficent as it is.

Now moving to the particular in relation to the culture of quick fix contraception and abortion, I think there should be a level playing field in terms of real education on this subject, setting aside any religious reasons, there is the whole question of human anthropology, the nature of the human person and how they flourish. Confucius once wrote that the first signs of cultural decay is when language no longer means what it says, women are sold jargon such as reproductive health, and that encompasses the pill, abortion, hormonal patches, I.U.Ds, etc all the anathaema of holistic health and all benefitting an industry and an agenda , of course the negative consequences of dependancy on these quick fixes is in the fine print, but that is non good when the culture,, the state and its agencies, the media and the entertainment industry push them. I know a few doctors who don't and they are few, and the ridiculing and negative pressure from their peers is sad. Don't get me wrong here, I am absolutely against a theocracy or moral prohibitions, what I am in favour of is proper information, not deconstructed to suit an agenda or industry, so that really informed decisions can be made. We also see this in relation to the vaccine for cervical cancer, again I do not believe in moral rigorism, i.e assuming the worst motives of parents and young girls in taking it, i.e. that it is a license to be mroe promiscuous, but paretns and girsl do need to be told that the HPV strains it targets are those that are transmitted sexually, that it could be akin to taking a sledgehammer to crack a walnut and that pareents perhpas should also put their 12 year olds on the pill in case they are raped. Behaviour is what needs to change, real love and responsibility is what works, and if we are pessimists and think and fear the worst then its pop the pill and take the needle time, perpetually.

one of the things that is nearly always absent from such discussions is the woman's viewpoint West'sawake, it is a contributory factor in lots of problems.

The prevalence of the view that we somehow suffer from infantilism and are therefore unable to contribute anything of worth is something that was
apparent to my mother's generation, those who were denied a voice in healthcare . I think mostly the recurrent theme of these feelings was that they
were endowed with invisibility by virtue of how they were viewed in this culture.

[west'sawake]

I sometimes think its an existenalist problem, our young male politicians who have obviously been hot-housed in the political system would
rather not think about older women having sex lives or indeed facing crisis pregnancies. It's therefor easier to site the discussion and
the political funding in the area of youth (the immorality of people who are open to influence by unscrupulous organisations etcetera...)

it is good to see that the Irish Crisis Pregnancy agency has researched in the area and produced adequate support literature for older
women here :

Crisis Pregnancy Ireland – Crisis Pregnancy Agency

Dot,
I think you will find the young male politicians have been inculturated into the new gospel and are now part of the altered consciousness that can no longer think beyond the quick fix. But you are right about the level of ignorance in relation to the risk of pregnancy among peri menopausal women, whatever about the merits of promoting, uncritically, oral contraception, they do need to be more informed and educated on this and their sexual partners too especially in relation to the bio markers, spotting, mucus, dryness, etc. Do you not think it is shocking as a woman that so many are ignorant and have put no effort into getting to know their own bodies in relation to fertility and gynecological health? Are you completely satisfied that pushing contraception is the answer?

[west'sawake]

one of the things that is nearly always absent from such discussions is the woman's viewpoint West'sawake, it is a contributory factor in lots of problems.

The prevalence of the view that we somehow suffer from infantilism and are therefore unable to contribute anything of worth is something that was
apparent to my mother's generation, those who were denied a voice in healthcare . I think mostly the recurrent theme of these feelings was that they
were endowed with invisibility by virtue of how they were viewed in this culture.

I don't agree with you on this, not in Ireland at any rate, consider the work of the Women's Council of Ireland, the warriors for equality such as Nuala Fennel, RIP and those who succeeded her and the creation of proper equality frameworks and agencies that bring ideas to reality. We can learn a lot from strong women in Africa and South America who as matriarchs educate young and older women on how to really have control over their own bodies.

I have found many women to be lazy on this and give in too easily, my own mother had ten children, is a very strong and formidable chatacter, and very very materal, wanting every one of us, she spaced the last few, educating herself fully on her onw fertitlity patterns, aware of the risks to her health in the peri menopausal stage and did not get pregnant after the age of 37, she had to educate my father on the subject and I have no doubt he came to respect her fertility a lot more as part of her person, and not something to be looked at in fear as if an infection.

I know particular experiences vary, and I believe in an equality of choice, but equality only exists when their is full and unbiased information, objectively we can argue that IPP and the Catholic Chruch respectively have their own doctrines on this matter, bu
I just has suffered enough, especially women who have become pawns for a false anthropology.

[Christine Murray]

I think you will find the young male politicians have been inculturated into the new gospel and are now part of the altered consciousness that can no longer think beyond the quick fix. But you are right about the level of ignorance in relation to the risk of pregnancy among peri menopausal women, whatever about the merits of promoting, uncritically, oral contraception, they do need to be more informed and educated on this and their sexual partners to especially in relation to the bio markers, spotting, mucus, dryness, etc. Do you not think it is shocking as a woman that so many are ignorant and have put no effort into getting to know their own bodies in relation to fertility and gynecological health? Are you completely satisfied that pushing contraception is the answer?

I think that it is important not to negate a viewpoint simply because you disagree with what is being presented. I thank you for not jumping
down my throat and accusing me of all sorts of stuff like others on this thread.

I think that on issues such as contraception and fertility that women's voices are still wholly absent from the dialogue, indeed mostly we
are told to shut up because we are victims of mass-marketting and do not know what is beneficial for us... thats got to stop.

The one-sided viewpoint of the church which advocates gender-specific roles for women has hardly consulted or discussed with women
on these important issues before presenting in essence solutions that actually may not work!!!

Not all women are suited to pregnancy and motherhood, nor actively desire it. Those who do desire it have an awful lot to negotiate but
should be seen to be capable of educating themselves on the issues because mostly they are. women's fertility is highly complex and stretches
sometimes to upwards of forty years, policies in this area should reflect that rather than just pretending it does not exist because one's life choices
are not traditional.

[Sailor]

There is a truth and beauty to Catholic sexual morality. The abuse of children makes it look like a joke.

I almost have to conclude that you are trying to be provocative. Catholic views on sex - and I'm not even referring to the child abuse issue - are a sickness. Now, I know you find dignity in sickness - but truth and beauty as well?