Day of reckoning for Andrew Wakefield

[orbit]

You know what I meant – for ordinary people in modern Ireland. Are you disputing my claim that the death rate for the normal childhood diseases was negligible back in the 1960s (before vaccination started)?

I don't know what the death rate was, but some of those diseases are extremely debilitating (eg. polio) with life long effects.

These days the majority of children are vaccinated against measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, pertussis, Hep B, Hib, meningitis, pheumococcal, tetanus, tuberculosis, polio, and maybe others. Who even bothers to count them now? With all the follow-up doses it's up around 40 vaccinations in the first few years of life, with the promise of many boosters over the next decade of life. And more vaccines in the pipeline.

So, what? How is the end result all that different from catching, and hopefully surviving those diseases, and ending up with anti-body protection against catching them again?

And do they ever accept liability? Not on your life. Note the latest news: High Court approves disability settlement

Who's liable? Nobody.

Who's responsible? Nobody. Mary Harney? Forget it. We know she hasn't a clue.

Who pays? Innocent victims, and the taxpayers.

Cheap shot as usual. While I don't know anything about this case, some of these kinds of cases get settled because the cost of fighting them, and winning, could end up being greater than settling, without an admission of liability. Nobody is going to throw a sick child and its parents out of their home to pay for legal costs.

[ibis]

When my daughter was born June 1975, the big scare then was that a new vaccine for Whooping cough was causing brain damage in some children. Is this the same vaccine or are we talking about another one?

I refused the Whooping Cough vaccine for my baby. Too scared. Now she has refused the Swine Flu vaccine for her children!

Seems to me all is not as cut and dried as some here seem to think it is. Perhaps its a simple matter of some people being allergic to some vaccines?

There's often going to be a small fraction of people who are allergic (or have a strong reaction, let's say) to anything. The proportion affected needs to be very low indeed before a vaccine is declared safe for use. The trade-off is that very small number of adverse cases against the numbers that would be affected or killed by allowing the disease to spread 'naturally'.

Having said that, much of what is touted on the Internet as statistics are simply false. According to the WHO:

* Twenty two million doses of Chiron's influenza vaccine (FLUAD) have been administered safely since 1997. This vaccine contains about 10mg of squalene per dose. No severe adverse events have been associated with the vaccine. Some mild local reactogenicity has been observed.
* Clinical studies on squalene-containing vaccines have been done in infants and neonates without evidence of safety concerns.

and:

* A few people have tried to link the health problems of Gulf War veterans to the possible presence of squalene in the vaccines these soldiers received.
* One published report suggested that some veterans who received anthrax vaccines developed anti-squalene antibodies and these antibodies caused disabilities.
* It is now known that squalene was not added to the vaccines administered to these veterans, and technical deficiencies in the report suggesting an association have been published.

Of course, they would say that, because...well, because conspiracy. They want to, apparently. Like witches - who did bad things because they were witches.

[drkpower]

Vaccination didn't save us from TB. Streptomycin was the main factor.

Oh, I see.... So Big Pharma are actively creating disease through vaccinations, but the same Big Pharma (Merck, in this case) 'saved us' from TB through the development of Streptomycin....!!!!

Seriously, do you realise how ridiculous a position you are taking?!

Are you disputing my claim that the death rate for the normal childhood diseases was negligible back in the 1960s (before vaccination started)?.

Yes; if you read anything other than looper sites, you would realise that the mortality and serious morbidity rates were anything but negligible.

The History of Polio
[SIZE="1"]Coming to a peak in the early 1950s, the death rate from polio reached 5% and the paralysis rate climbed to 37%.[/SIZE]

Dil ireann - Volume 126 - 17 July, 1951 - Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Births, Deaths and Marriages.
[SIZE="1"]The number of deaths in the State in 1950 returned as from cancer was 3,903 and the number from tuberculosis of all kinds was 2,353.[/SIZE]

Negligible? Seriously, take the blinkers off. It is getting embarrassing now.

[rhonda15]

There's often going to be a small fraction of people who are allergic (or have a strong reaction, let's say) to anything. The proportion affected needs to be very low indeed before a vaccine is declared safe for use. The trade-off is that very small number of adverse cases against the numbers that would be affected or killed by allowing the disease to spread 'naturally'.

Having said that, much of what is touted on the Internet as statistics are simply false. According to the WHO:



and:



Of course, they would say that, because...well, because conspiracy. They want to, apparently. Like witches - who did bad things because they were witches.

WHO are a completely discredited organisation in my book.

Here is what they say about depleted uranium (FFS!) The World Health Organization states that no consistent risk of reproductive, developmental, or carcinogenic effects have been reported in humans.[9][10] However, the objectivity of this report has been called into question.Depleted uranium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Between that and the bogus swine flu pandemic they have shown themselves for what they truly are.

Here is the Concil of Europe Chair:

Council of Europe chair says pharmaceutical companies conspired with WHO to make vast profits from fake hysteria.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3R6WfBsD8o&feature="]YouTube- Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg on Alex Jones Tv 1/3: WHO's 2009 Swine Flu Threat Now Exposed as A Hoax![/ame]

[ibis]

There's a very long way to go before the WHO is discredited, except in the eyes of those who already don't believe a thing they say. The WHO and the pharmaceutical companies had completely different reasons for their actions - the WHO because swine flu had gone pandemic and nobody knew what the fatality rate would be, the pharmaceutical companies because it made them money.

I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand about this - swine flu went pandemic before the lethality of it was fully known, but after it was known that it tended to be more lethal in young healthy adults. That it turned out not to be a major killer is pure dumb luck, and not necessarily repeatable - that it's being turned into a conspiracy is just pure dumb, and regrettably repeatable.

[rhonda15]

Mercury, Autism and the Global Vaccine Agenda

(if you can stand the truth)

[rhonda15]

There's a very long way to go before the WHO is discredited, except in the eyes of those who already don't believe a thing they say. The WHO and the pharmaceutical companies had completely different reasons for their actions - the WHO because swine flu had gone pandemic and nobody knew what the fatality rate would be, the pharmaceutical companies because it made them money.

I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand about this - swine flu went pandemic before the lethality of it was fully known, but after it was known that it tended to be more lethal in young healthy adults. That it turned out not to be a major killer is pure dumb luck, and not necessarily repeatable - that it's being turned into a conspiracy is just pure dumb, and regrettably repeatable.

Sorry but I think I will take this guy's opinion over yours:

Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg is a german physician. Born in 1947. He studied medicine in Berlin and Hamburg and obtained his medical degree and a doctor´s grade from the University of Hamburg. He obtained his postgraduate qualifications in internal medicine and pneumology, in public health, social medicine, hygiene and environmental medicine in Germany and further training in epidemiology at Johns Hopkins University/ Baltimore, USA.

He worked as a ship´s doctor, port health authority and in the Bernhard-Nocht-Hospital for Tropical Diseases in Hamburg. He practiced medicine in several clinics and was the director of a public health institute in Northern Germany for 13 years before getting elected for the German Bundestag.

Dr. Wodarg initiated and chaired for ten years the Specialist Committee on Environmental Health of the Chamber of Physicians (FAGUSH) and was a member of the Epidemiology Task Force in his country Schleswig-Holstein.

He was MP from 1994 till 2009, for the whole time a member of the Health Committee and since 2005 in the Committee for Economic Cooperation and Development.

He initiated and was the speaker of the Enquete Commission "Law and Ethics of Modern Medicine" of the German Bundestag.

Dr. Wodarg is an Honorary Member of the Parliamentary Assembly of Council of Europe (PACE). From 1998 until January 2010, he was a member of the PACE, since 2002 Vice-Chairman of the European Socialist Group, since 2006 speaker of the German Social Democrats and deputy head of the german delegation in Strasbourg. He was the Deputy Chairman of the Committee on Culture, Education and Science and afterwards Chairman of the Subcommittee on Health until January 2009. Parallel he was a Member of the Political Affairs Committee of the Parliamentary Assembly of Council of Europe.

His initiatives and reports brought important issues such as "Faked Pandemics", private military companies, the role of media for democracy, palliative medicine or genetic testing and genetically modified organisms on the political agenda. Recently he was rapporteur on "Private military and security firms and the erosion of the state monopoly on the use of force” for the Political Affairs Committee and on "Palliative care: a model for innovative health and social policies” for the Social, Health and Family Affairs Committee.

Dr. Wodarg is a lecturer at the University of Flensburg and President of the Rheuma-Liga Schleswig-Holstein.

Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg - Biography

[ibis]

Sorry but I think I will take this guy's opinion over yours:

Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg is a german physician. Born in 1947. He studied medicine in Berlin and Hamburg and obtained his medical degree and a doctor´s grade from the University of Hamburg. He obtained his postgraduate qualifications in internal medicine and pneumology, in public health, social medicine, hygiene and environmental medicine in Germany and further training in epidemiology at Johns Hopkins University/ Baltimore, USA.

He worked as a ship´s doctor, port health authority and in the Bernhard-Nocht-Hospital for Tropical Diseases in Hamburg. He practiced medicine in several clinics and was the director of a public health institute in Northern Germany for 13 years before getting elected for the German Bundestag.

Dr. Wodarg initiated and chaired for ten years the Specialist Committee on Environmental Health of the Chamber of Physicians (FAGUSH) and was a member of the Epidemiology Task Force in his country Schleswig-Holstein.

He was MP from 1994 till 2009, for the whole time a member of the Health Committee and since 2005 in the Committee for Economic Cooperation and Development.

He initiated and was the speaker of the Enquete Commission "Law and Ethics of Modern Medicine" of the German Bundestag.

Dr. Wodarg is an Honorary Member of the Parliamentary Assembly of Council of Europe (PACE). From 1998 until January 2010, he was a member of the PACE, since 2002 Vice-Chairman of the European Socialist Group, since 2006 speaker of the German Social Democrats and deputy head of the german delegation in Strasbourg. He was the Deputy Chairman of the Committee on Culture, Education and Science and afterwards Chairman of the Subcommittee on Health until January 2009. Parallel he was a Member of the Political Affairs Committee of the Parliamentary Assembly of Council of Europe.

His initiatives and reports brought important issues such as "Faked Pandemics", private military companies, the role of media for democracy, palliative medicine or genetic testing and genetically modified organisms on the political agenda. Recently he was rapporteur on "Private military and security firms and the erosion of the state monopoly on the use of force” for the Political Affairs Committee and on "Palliative care: a model for innovative health and social policies” for the Social, Health and Family Affairs Committee.

Dr. Wodarg is a lecturer at the University of Flensburg and President of the Rheuma-Liga Schleswig-Holstein.

Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg - Biography

I'm afraid your vote of confidence in him doesn't really do anything for me. I guess I'll just have to make up my own mind, as usual. After all, I've noticed that you don't hesitate to trust a doctor (or indeed a politician) who agrees with you, despite your distrust of those who don't.

[soubresauts]

I don't know what the death rate was, but some of those diseases are extremely debilitating (eg. polio) with life long effects.

I said "the normal childhood diseases". Polio is not one of them.

I believe there haven't been any cases of polio in Ireland for many years. However, look at this: vaccine-induced polio. I believe several cases of polio have occurred in the U.S. in recent years and all those people had been vaccinated. I wouldn't touch the polio vaccine with a bargepole.

So, what? How is the end result all that different from catching, and hopefully surviving those diseases, and ending up with anti-body protection against catching them again?

Big difference. Catching the disease gives 100% immunity, life-long. Vaccines give imperfect immunity and, in many cases, the effect wears off after a few years.

Cheap shot as usual. While I don't know anything about this case, some of these kinds of cases get settled because the cost of fighting them, and winning, could end up being greater than settling, without an admission of liability. Nobody is going to throw a sick child and its parents out of their home to pay for legal costs.

I take your point; it was a bit of a cheap shot (not my usual, mind you). But with vaccination who's liable? Cf. this.

[soubresauts]

Having said that, much of what is touted on the Internet as statistics are simply false. According to the WHO:

As if you get the truth from the WHO!

Do you always look uncritically at WHO documents?

Various WHO documents name fluoride as a "nutrient". That has been going on for years. Is that just an almighty blunder or is it lying? And is it an isolated example?