Day of reckoning for Andrew Wakefield

[soubresauts]

Bloody 'ell; so vaccines cause all of these too?

You said it, not me. However, we could speculate: suppose vaccinations are 10% responsible for the rise in those diseases. Is there reason to think that is possible? There certainly is! Does the medical establishment want to investigate that possibility? Certainly not.

And if your theory, as I understyand it, is that Big Pharma are making big bucks on the basis of unneeded vaccines...

It's no theory; it's a fact. No vaccine is actually needed. And all vaccines produce nasty side effects.

... what is the motivation for actually causing the likes of obesity and autism? If the motivation is simply money, why not just make vaccines largely harmless? Why do they want to cause obesity and autism?

I thought it was obvious:

It is not in the interests of Big Pharma to prevent common diseases. Quite the opposite in fact. The maintenance and expansion of diseases is a precondition for the financial growth of the industry; improving human health is not its driving force.

The huge profits of the pharmaceutical industry are based on the patenting of new drugs and vaccines.

The marketplace for the pharmaceutical industry is the human body, but only for as long as the body hosts diseases.

Would you not agree?

[drkpower]

Would you not agree?

Dont be silly....

What you are suggesting is that the pharmaceutical industry, with the active collusion of the medical profession (that means individual real doctors, across a wde range of specialisms, across a whole host of countries) and the governemtns as well as governmental organisations like the WHO/EU/CDC are all conspiring not only to make money for Big Pharma, but to actively cause disease in healthy children, so that Big Pharma can create more treatments to treat those ailments.........

Now, I know many doctors who would presumably be part of this conspiracy, personally and professionally, and to suggest that they are part of such a conspiracy or that they are acquiescing when they know it is going on is utterly ridiculous.

I thought you were relatively reasonable in that you had an issue with vaccination/flouridation and wanted to investiogate it reasonably. But actually you are as crazy as the rest of the fruit-loops on this site.

[soubresauts]

What you are suggesting is that the pharmaceutical industry, with the active collusion of the medical profession (that means individual real doctors, across a wde range of specialisms, across a whole host of countries) and the governemtns as well as governmental organisations like the WHO/EU/CDC are all conspiring not only to make money for Big Pharma, but to actively cause disease in healthy children, so that Big Pharma can create more treatments to treat those ailments.........

Not at all. I'm not suggesting that medical doctors in general are conspiring in that way. All it takes is a handful of people in key positions. Everyone else drops into line, willy-nilly. I don't doubt the good intentions of 99% of the doctors, but they don't question what they were indoctrinated with in medical school -- that vaccination is the only answer to disease.

Obviously, prescription drugs are not the answer to disease since none of them, apart from antibiotics, actually cure disease. Nevertheless nearly all doctors spend their time, when they're not vaccinating, prescribing drugs left right and centre, from the best of intentions of course. As for antibiotics, that's another health disaster; see the latest here.

What do governments and the WHO/CDC etc. do? They bow to the whitecoats and Big Pharma, unquestioningly. You only have to look at their record. Fluoridation is one, very clear example. Science doesn’t come into it.

There's one other factor you might not have considered in relation to public health policies – reputation. The powerful people who have decided on a particular health measure cannot countenance the measure being reversed, even when science, logic and morality demand it. Their reputation would suffer, and they fight tooth and nail to preserve their reputation; money is hardly required as a motivation. Again, fluoridation is a good example: the quango that controls Irish fluoridation, the Expert Body on Fluorides & Health employs the international PR company Weber Shandwick, who specialize in preserving reputation. All paid for by the taxpayer of course.

And, returning to vaccination, I have to ask: Why do taxpayers shell out so willingly for so many vaccines when there is no medical or scientific justification for them?

Smallpox? It's no threat. Why vaccinate?
Polio? It's no threat. Why vaccinate?
Diphtheria? It's no threat. Why vaccinate?

Measles? It's no threat to children who are well cared for. They would recover quickly from the disease and gain lifelong immunity (as opposed to the imperfect immunity conferred by the vaccine). Why vaccinate? Why do doctors call it a "killer disease"?

Ditto mumps, rubella, pertussis, flu, scarlet fever, chickenpox…

Hep A, Hep B, Hep C? Again, no threat to children who are well cared for. Why vaccinate?

Hib, pneumococcal, meningococcal vaccines? Dodgy, dangerous. Who needs them?

BCG for tuberculosis? Useless. Pointless. Why vaccinate?

And so on. What is the point? Why are we spending billions of taxpayers' money on all this vaccination? Why not let people pay for it if they want it? Would we all be dropping like flies without vaccination? Certainly not. The healthiest people I know are the unvaccinated ones (and I know many, of all ages). No one of my generation was vaccinated against the normal childhood diseases. We never feared them, nobody died from them, and we gained lifelong immunity.

Why should those who don't want vaccination have to pay for those who do?

And what about all the vaccine-damaged children? Are they being looked after adequately?

One more question: Do vaccines actually endanger us (see here) more than they protect us?

[Toland]

Is there reason to think that is possible?

No

[Lazarus]

When my daughter was born June 1975, the big scare then was that a new vaccine for Whooping cough was causing brain damage in some children. Is this the same vaccine or are we talking about another one?

I refused the Whooping Cough vaccine for my baby. Too scared. Now she has refused the Swine Flu vaccine for her children!

Seems to me all is not as cut and dried as some here seem to think it is. Perhaps its a simple matter of some people being allergic to some vaccines?

[drkpower]

You said it, not me. However, we could speculate: suppose vaccinations are 10% responsible for the rise in those diseases. ?

As I suspected, you are just another goal-post shifting conspiracy theorist. Isnt your theory that Big Pharma/medics are conspiring to cause disease in children in order to develop treatments for these diseases in order to make more money. Whyy would they only do it to 1/10th of their ability?. Especially considering they have the medical profession, governmental & international agencies and the medical journals in their pocket, who are conspiring to ensure that the truth doesnt emerge?

A bit of consistency please.

No vaccine is actually needed. And all vaccines produce nasty side effects.

Do you/would you only accept 'needed' medical treatments? And can you point me to the medical treatment without 'nasty side effects'? I asked this question before but you ignored/missed/dodged it.

[Grizzly Man]

Smallpox? It's no threat. Why vaccinate?
Polio? It's no threat. Why vaccinate?
Diphtheria? It's no threat. Why vaccinate?

Measles? It's no threat to children who are well cared for. They would recover quickly from the disease and gain lifelong immunity (as opposed to the imperfect immunity conferred by the vaccine). Why vaccinate? Why do doctors call it a "killer disease"?

Ditto mumps, rubella, pertussis, flu, scarlet fever, chickenpox…

Hep A, Hep B, Hep C? Again, no threat to children who are well cared for. Why vaccinate?

Hib, pneumococcal, meningococcal vaccines? Dodgy, dangerous. Who needs them?

BCG for tuberculosis? Useless. Pointless. Why vaccinate??

All I can say is thank God you're not in charge of health policy in this country!

We do not vaccinate children in Ireland against smallpox, flu (except recently with swine flu), scarlet fever, chickenpox, Hep A, Hep C. So you clearly have no idea of what you're talking about straight off.

If you think polio is no threat, I suggest you read some articles about Cork in the 50s and 60s. Vaccinating against TB pointless? Again, look back a few years to see the heartache it caused in this country.

The rest of the diseases you list will casue serious, even fatal, illness in a certain number of children, no matter how much you believe that is not the case if they are "well cared for".

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. You might want to read some proper books rather than spouting uninformed, incorrect rubbish you read on the internet.

[soubresauts]

All I can say is thank God you're not in charge of health policy in this country!

I'm so glad you're not blaming me! Who do you think is in charge of vaccination in Ireland?

We do not vaccinate children in Ireland against smallpox, flu (except recently with swine flu), scarlet fever, chickenpox, Hep A, Hep C.

Smallpox slipped in there by mistake, and might slip into our lives again sometime -- see this. As for the others, well, the intention seems to be to start vaccinating asap.

If you think polio is no threat, I suggest you read some articles about Cork in the 50s and 60s.

I didn't just read, I lived through the 50s and 60s.

Vaccinating against TB pointless? Again, look back a few years to see the heartache it caused in this country.

Vaccination didn't save us from TB. Streptomycin was the main factor.

The rest of the diseases you list will casue serious, even fatal, illness in a certain number of children, no matter how much you believe that is not the case if they are "well cared for".

No, the rest of the vaccines I list will cause serious, even fatal illness in a certain number of children.

And who is surprised, given the list of vaccine ingredients? More here:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvQvz5uPPZk"]YouTube- CH. NFurno: How the Drug Companies Make Vaccines[/ame]

[Grizzly Man]

No, the rest of the vaccines I list will cause serious, even fatal illness in a certain number of children.

So those diseases have never caused harm to any children? Seriously, like! There's a good reason anti-vaccine campaigners are stereotyped as whackjobs and nutters - that's what they are.

[soubresauts]

So those diseases have never caused harm to any children? Seriously, like!

You know what I meant – for ordinary people in modern Ireland. Are you disputing my claim that the death rate for the normal childhood diseases was negligible back in the 1960s (before vaccination started)?

These days the majority of children are vaccinated against measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, pertussis, Hep B, Hib, meningitis, pneumococcal, tetanus, tuberculosis, polio, and maybe others. Who even bothers to count them now? With all the follow-up doses it's up around 40 vaccinations in the first few years of life, with the promise of many boosters over the next decade of life. And more vaccines in the pipeline.

You, drkpower, aggressivesecularist and ibis reject any possibility of combined or cumulative or adverse synergistic effects from all those injections into little kids' bodies. You have no doubts about safety, no scepticism whatsoever, just total faith in the whitecoats/Big Pharma lackeys. The same whitecoats who tell us that fluoride is a "nutrient" and even "essential".

And me, I don't buy it, I don't buy anything they say without weighing everything up carefully, without serious scepticism. I've seen those whitecoats lie so many times…

And do they ever accept liability? Not on your life. Note the latest news: High Court approves disability settlement

Who's liable? Nobody.

Who's responsible? Nobody. Mary Harney? Forget it. We know she hasn't a clue.

Who pays? Innocent victims, and the taxpayers.

Note the latest on how huge sums of public money are being wasted, I mean, spent on vaccination, here.