IT's John Gibbons not helping Greens

[amblincork]

At a time when the Greens would probably prefer to keep their heads down and get on with the job for a while, the Irish Times’ John Gibbons has decided to give out about the voters who refused to vote Green. Apparently we decided to take it out on the Greens rather than FF. Thus he writes :

“And now, as Capt Renault would say, it’s time to round up the usual suspects. Someone must pay for the electorate’s grievous error in again returning Bertie Ahern’s low standards to high places in 2007, while pinching our collective nose to block the bad smell then emanating from the Mahon tribunal. The enigma remains: if the Irish electorate is suddenly repulsed by sleveenism, why eliminate from local government the very councillors with an unblemished track record in opposing planning corruption? Worried about jobs? Why then nuke the party whose initiatives may deliver tens of thousands of new jobs in the rapidly evolving renewable energy sector? (I’m non-party and will support anyone, be it Liz McManus, Simon Coveney or Ming the Merciless, as long as they are serious about tackling the ecological crisis).”

It appears to have escaped Gibbon’s attention that it was the Greens who propped up Bertie Ahern and that the majority of people entitled to vote didn’t actually vote for FF - why would FF need to go into coalition if that were the case ?
With friends like John gibbons, does the Green Party need enemies ?

[myk]

I have come across this attitude that Global Warming is the over-riding political issue and therefore justifying the Green Party participation in government at all costs and despite all other factors. In my mind it is a dangerous approach and based on false logic. It is echoed in Eamon Ryan's letter to the paper today.

Madam, – Mark Hennessy says in his assessment of the position of the Green Party (Elections 2009, June 9th) that we must reinvent ourselves “now that so much of their agenda has been cherry-picked by political opponents.” If there were another party in this State which understood the basic economic principle that we must not live beyond the planet’s means, our work would be done. However, that is far from being the case. In fact, it is hard to think of a single TD from another party who has made living within the earth’s resources a guiding principle of economic policy. This is despite all the scientific evidence that taking a subprime loan from the planet which we cannot repay, will have absolutely devastating economic and social consequences.

Nothing would please us more than for another party to espouse our principles and carry them through into policy, but none has given the slightest indication that it intends to do so. – Yours, etc,
EAMON RYAN,
Leinster House,
Kildare Street,
Dublin 2.

[TradCat]

Those two posts tell us what is wrong with the Greens and why they will be wiped out. For most of us the economic crisis in the state dwarfs everything but when seen in the context of the Green agenda it is a minor issue.

They have a much larger ambition which is to change the way we live and it is worth putting up with Fianna Fail in order to advance that agenda. Which means we can never trust them. In effect being in government is not only an ambition but a duty. If that can only be done with FF then so be it.

Not only must they be wiped out at the next election but they must never be forgiven and brought back.

[amblincork]

I would forgive the Greens a lot if they took the principle of Sustainability and applied it to the whole process of government and the apparatus that surrounds government - civil service, quagos, local authorities.
All these need to be reduced to the minimum size that is required for effective delivery of services and no bigger.
To take a practical example: Allowing artists and writers to have their first €250,000 of income each year free of tax is not sustainable and requires that other sectors must accept the burden of paying tax for artists& writers as well as their own fair share of tax.
If we must all accept the 'Polluter pays principle' then surely all must accept the need to contribute tax according to their means also. Yet the Greens seem to accept the 'special case pleading' of the cultural sector.
If the Greens want to be seen as a radical crusading party, then they must be radical in their own backyard first. i.e they must reduce the size of government. Every euro the government spends is generated by tax on carbon emitting production of one kind or another.
Why should I worry about my carbon foot print when FF/ greens arent particularily worried about theirs.

[JCSkinner]

Gibbons isn't the Greenest himself, what with printing all those trade mags for a living.

[syzygial]

I have come across this attitude that Global Warming is the over-riding political issue and therefore justifying the Green Party participation in government at all costs and despite all other factors. In my mind it is a dangerous approach and based on false logic. It is echoed in Eamon Ryan's letter to the paper today.

You approach is dangerous, not the Greens'! Can you not see a bigger picture, one that challenges the wider global economy and not just our tiny open one?

Those two posts tell us what is wrong with the Greens and why they will be wiped out. For most of us the economic crisis in the state dwarfs everything but when seen in the context of the Green agenda it is a minor issue.

They have a much larger ambition which is to change the way we live and it is worth putting up with Fianna Fail in order to advance that agenda. Which means we can never trust them. In effect being in government is not only an ambition but a duty. If that can only be done with FF then so be it.

Not only must they be wiped out at the next election but they must never be forgiven and brought back.

Yes, of course there's an ambition to change the way we live and address the enormous challenges that will face us in the coming decades as a result of declining fossil fuel resources. You think this recession is bad? It will be dwarfed by the global economic, political and social turmoil that may result if your kind of attitude remains prevalent.

It's really FF hating at all costs for you, isn't it?

[spidermom]

You approach is dangerous, not the Greens'! Can you not see a bigger picture, one that challenges the wider global economy and not just our tiny open one?




Yes, of course there's an ambition to change the way we live and address the enormous challenges that will face us in the coming decades as a result of declining fossil fuel resources. You think this recession is bad? It will be dwarfed by the global economic, political and social turmoil that may result if your kind of attitude remains prevalent.

It's really FF hating at all costs for you, isn't it?

Well then why bother having policies on education and health....if climate change and the world fuel crisis is the sole concern of the green party...why bother pretending to the electorate that you care about our kids or our hospitals!!!.......its for this that you will not get another green vote from me...and not because of your "green" policies!!!!

[myk]

You approach is dangerous, not the Greens'! Can you not see a bigger picture, one that challenges the wider global economy and not just our tiny open one?

I can see the dangers of Global Warming, and Ireland should take a leadership role in tackling it. However I don't accept this blinkered idea that Global Warming justifies the Green Party's presence in government whatever their level of success on climate change issues and regardless of what other issues are at play. That sort of fanaticism has no place in modern Irish politics.

[syzygial]

Well then why bother having policies on education and health....if climate change and the world fuel crisis is the sole concern of the green party...why bother pretending to the electorate that you care about our kids or our hospitals!!!.......its for this that you will not get another green vote from me...and not because of your "green" policies!!!!

Did i say that it's the sole concern? No, you did.

Is that really the extent of your intelligence vis-a-vis the Green Party, or party politics in general?

[TradCat]

Yes, of course there's an ambition to change the way we live and address the enormous challenges that will face us in the coming decades as a result of declining fossil fuel resources. You think this recession is bad? It will be dwarfed by the global economic, political and social turmoil that may result if your kind of attitude remains prevalent.

It's really FF hating at all costs for you, isn't it?

I have plenty of hate to go around. But you are confirming the point. While most people can't understand why the Greens are hanging in there (I never believed it was for the pensions) from their point of view it makes sense. They think they are saving the world.

They are convinced their participation in government will have an effect on the weather in 100 years time. You may share that outlook but if the cost of five years in power now means they (and their unique political perspective) gets wiped out then it looks like a poor political calculation.