If the Greens won't leave, should they demand an extra Ministry as price for staying?

[yehbut_nobut]

The higher echelons of the GP seem set on clinging to FF in Government come what may.

I see absolutely no point to the Greens digging their heels in, if they're not prepared to extract huge extra concessions from their partners. The landscape is unrecognisable from that which existed when the negotiations to enter government happened. Not least is the fact that they're needed a lot more now than they were then

Transport is one are that the party could demonstrate a change for the better that would be tangiable and noticed by the ordinary public.

Should the Greens demand the Tarnsport Portfolio in addition to the two they hold as their price for sticking with FF through the crap times?

[Iarmhi Gael]

When was the last time FF rolled over????

Not in a million years

[ivnryn]

The problem is that FF know the Greens would also be decimated if a general election happened.

If they were to demand another cabinet seat (maybe Health?), it would come down to a game of chicken. Both sides would know if neither of them blinked, both of them will be seriously hurt.

[Spence]

I don't think, despite the worsening economic climate, that the Greens would have the leverage to get an extra seat nor would they want one unless it was too good an opportunity to pass.

[yehbut_nobut]

The problem is that FF know the Greens would also be decimated if a general election happened.

If they were to demand another cabinet seat (maybe Health?), it would come down to a game of chicken. Both sides would know if neither of them blinked, both of them will be seriously hurt.

Question is, who stands to lose more? I think it's Fianna Fail, undoubtedly.
The Greens will recover some support in walking away from a toxic government.

[flavirostris]

Frankly, I don’t see why they would start playing hardball all of a sudden despite the changes in the dáil arithmetic which mean that technically they do have a stronger hand than when they first entered government. Just watch Deirdre deBurca on Q&A whining about being a small party unable to influence things like Transport to understand why. The truth is, they prefer the comfort zone of their own departments and are unwilling to rock the boat with FF, despite having increased leverage in the dáil.
The pattern was set during the negotiations for government when they caved on virtually everything in order to get their asses into mercs/priuses. If you roll over on Day 1, you don't start acting like a hardass a year or two later.

[VeryVert]

Yehbut, just out of interest, how many threads per week on average do you post in the green party forum?

Would you like a membership form?

[yehbut_nobut]

Frankly, I don’t see why they would start playing hardball all of a sudden despite the changes in the dáil arithmetic which mean that technically they do have a stronger hand than when they first entered government. Just watch Deirdre deBurca on Q&A whining about being a small party unable to influence things like Transport to understand why. The truth is, they prefer the comfort zone of their own departments and are unwilling to rock the boat with FF, despite having increased leverage in the dáil.
The pattern was set during the negotiations for government when they caved on virtually everything in order to get their asses into mercs/priuses. If you roll over on Day 1, you don't start acting like a hardass a year or two later.

There's no reason why they shouldn't, and every reason why they should start playing hardball. Will they, though?

God save us, a thought just occured to me - their not trying that lark of acheiving decisons by peaceful consensus, are they!!!?

Works well in some organisations, but lordamercy if they're pulling that stunt at the cabinet table where as a minor partner, hardball is the only game in town!

[Evestown2]

The Greens are too worried that if they did something like that (demand an extra ministry) people would start asking questions about their big policy items that were not included in the Programme for Government.

I'm especially thinking about the M3. If they could get that re-routed away from Tara I think it would guarantee them a good local election vote and it would rebuild the green voters (not to be confused with Green Party Members) trust in them.

I would go so far as to say that if they were going to pull a political stroke they shoudl get one of their policies implemented rather than go for a ministry. Any ministry will just mean lots of cutbacks and unpopularity for the party, with little chance of getting their other policies going - due to lack of funds.

If they did pull a stroke there would be a lot of back biting from FG and Labour about the cost and allegations of waste in a time of need etc but I think it would still be worth it. not just to get something else green done but in vote terms too.

Pity they won't though.

[feet first]

When was the last time FF rolled over????

Not in a million years

FF would and have rolled over a Million times in one year , if it means saving their skins and staying in power , how many times have they eaten humble pie. The PDs were everyday living proof of this, Remember FF have traditionally had an anti coalition policy , so for the last 18 years they have rolled over to politics, Trade unions, Bank, Developers, ETC.