Green party guide to Lisbon Treaty

[thebrom]

The Green Party published a guide which was distributed to members before our conference on the issue:
http://www.greenparty.ie/en/content/...y_LR_noreg.pdf

There are two points that the document makes as arguments against the treaty that I am not sure about:
-The Treaty would be self-amending allowing changes to be made without a treaty-changing Inter Governmental Conference.
-It commits member states to ‘progressively’ improve their military capabilities

Are these in the treaty?

[StripeyCat]

The first is debatable. The second is certainly there:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Treaty_of ... Article_27
"Member States shall undertake progressively to improve their military capabilities."

[Helium Three]

Does it still have the mistake about keeping Ireland out of a common defence policy in it?

Whoever wrote that bit mixed up common defence, which we are not part of and would have another referendum on, and common defence policy, which the member states say in Lisbon will happen.

This mistake was pointed out at their Convention in January apparently so they have had time to get it fixed.

[Grumpy Fogey]

The Green Party published a guide which was distributed to members before our conference on the issue:
http://www.greenparty.ie/en/content/...y_LR_noreg.pdf

There are two points that the document makes as arguments against the treaty that I am not sure about:
-The Treaty would be self-amending allowing changes to be made without a treaty-changing Inter Governmental Conference.
-It commits member states to ‘progressively’ improve their military capabilities

Are these in the treaty?

The reference to "self-amending" may refer either to the "paserelle" provision in the treaty itself which will allow for the extension of QMV into new areas - but unanimity will be required to make the change. It's a one-way street though: once QMV has been adopted, there's no rowing back.

The reference may also be to sections of the constitutional amendment we'll be voting on tomorrow, which I reproduce below:

12° The State may exercise the options or discretions provided by or under Articles 1.22, 2.64,
2.65, 2.66, 2.67, 2.68 and 2.278 of the Treaty referred to in subsection 10° of this section and
Articles 1.18 and 1.20 of Protocol No. 1 annexed to that Treaty, but any such exercise shall be
subject to the prior approval of both Houses of the Oireachtas.

13° The State may exercise the option to secure that the Protocol on the position of the United
Kingdom and Ireland in respect of the area of freedom, security and justice annexed to the Treaty on
European Union and the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (formerly known as the
Treaty establishing the European Community) shall, in whole or in part, cease to apply to the State,
but any such exercise shall be subject to the prior approval of both Houses of the Oireachtas.

Basically, these provisions would allow various Irish opt-outs to be set aside without the need for a further referendum.

[PaintingMedium]

[Rocky]

The first is debatable. The second is certainly there:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Treaty_of ... Article_27
"Member States shall undertake progressively to improve their military capabilities."

Ireland is progessively improving it's military capabilites all the time anyway and rightly so, if we were still using equipment from the 1920's, our troops would be screwed in Chad.

[Bacon-Egg]

[thebrom]

The Green Party published a guide which was distributed to members before our conference on the issue:
http://www.greenparty.ie/en/content/...y_LR_noreg.pdf

There are two points that the document makes as arguments against the treaty that I am not sure about:
-The Treaty would be self-amending allowing changes to be made without a treaty-changing Inter Governmental Conference.
-It commits member states to ‘progressively’ improve their military capabilities

Are these in the treaty?

The reference to "self-amending" may refer either to the "paserelle" provision in the treaty itself which will allow for the extension of QMV into new areas - but unanimity will be required to make the change. It's a one-way street though: once QMV has been adopted, there's no rowing back.

The reference may also be to sections of the constitutional amendment we'll be voting on tomorrow, which I reproduce below:

12° The State may exercise the options or discretions provided by or under Articles 1.22, 2.64,
2.65, 2.66, 2.67, 2.68 and 2.278 of the Treaty referred to in subsection 10° of this section and
Articles 1.18 and 1.20 of Protocol No. 1 annexed to that Treaty, but any such exercise shall be
subject to the prior approval of both Houses of the Oireachtas.

13° The State may exercise the option to secure that the Protocol on the position of the United
Kingdom and Ireland in respect of the area of freedom, security and justice annexed to the Treaty on
European Union and the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (formerly known as the
Treaty establishing the European Community) shall, in whole or in part, cease to apply to the State,
but any such exercise shall be subject to the prior approval of both Houses of the Oireachtas.

Basically, these provisions would allow various Irish opt-outs to be set aside without the need for a further referendum.

EU law has superseded Irish law all along. The point is the treaty states that decision making should be made at the lowest possible level and gives us opt outs on the most sensitive collaborative issues.
The big one for me though is the commitment to Climate Change and renewable energy. That overides some of the strange defence wording that's in the treaty.

[Universal_001]

The first is debatable. The second is certainly there:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Treaty_of ... Article_27
"Member States shall undertake progressively to improve their military capabilities."

Ireland is progessively improving it's military capabilites all the time anyway and rightly so, if we were still using equipment from the 1920's, our troops would be screwed in Chad.

Yes, lets pretend it's about having properly equipped UN peacekeepers, and not about lining the pockets of the arms industry

[certain_people]

The Green Party published a guide which was distributed to members before our conference on the issue:
http://www.greenparty.ie/en/content/...y_LR_noreg.pdf

There are two points that the document makes as arguments against the treaty that I am not sure about:
-The Treaty would be self-amending allowing changes to be made without a treaty-changing Inter Governmental Conference.
-It commits member states to ‘progressively’ improve their military capabilities

Are these in the treaty?

They are both in it. The first is Article 48, which allows amendments to be made to the Treaties without an IGC; the changes would have to be unanimous but no IGC, and thus no referendum for us. Plenty of other pie threads on this.

The second is Article 27 which says exactly that sentence.