Greens in Government - What a difference?

[tic tac man]

They have had some minimal success in implementig the green-lite policies that FF had already accepted as necessary. They are trumpeting these successes as their own. Fair enough. That show politics work.
But they have abandoned all talk of social justice and are complicit in the system that creates our increasingly polarised society. And surely this is the biggest issue, that without the greens this right-wing, corrupt government would be under serious pressure.

[certain_people]

In fairness the greens have made some difference, just maybe not the difference people were expecting.

The first thing they are responsible for the huge increase in car tax, nice one lads. Then of course there is Tara, FF plans to bulldoze our national monument are no longer in doubt as the greens have decided they are all for it now. Mr Gormley meanwhile has decided he would like to see (and smell) the workings of a huge incinerater, up close and personal! And of course lets not forget how they are now in favour of Shell's on-shore gas refinery and the give-away of all our oil and gas. Oh and they are now supportive of the war on Iraq.

So yeah quite a lot has changed, though its more a case of the government changing the greens.

Let me guess, you voted for a party that's in opposition, right?

I shouldn't really respond, but I will anyway:

1. Tara. A Fine Gael led government would have built the road as well, so basically we were out-voted on this all round. We don't want the road, we just can't stop it. But what Gormley has done is make sure there'll be no developments springing up along the side of the road, so the impact will be minimised.

2. Incinerator. John has changed waste policy so that incineration is no longer part of government strategy, but he can't stop Dublin City Council and An Bord Pleanala from going ahead with it. But the change in policy, increased recycling and mechanical-biological treatment means the plant will be redundant, so this one's not over. It may also be in contravention of EU rules.

3. Oil/gas/shell. Terms of exploration licences changed to give a greater share to Ireland. We can't change previously signed contracts, you want to bitch about shell, take it to Fianna Fáil, they're the ones that did that deal. Eamon has met the local residents and Shell numerous times and is trying to get the best possible outcome all round for that, it won't be ideal but it will be better than what an FF-PD govt. without us would have done.

4. Iraq. The Greens didn't support the US invasion of Iraq, but the fact is the occupation now has a UN mandate. So if you want to bitch about that, take it to the UN. I'd add on a personal note that a US withdrawal now would hurt Iraq more than staying would, and if you don't see that, well, I won't argue with you but you're wrong.


Have the Greens achieved all we wanted? No, of course not. But then, we got six seats, not 83. So if you want us to achieve everything we want, give us 83 seats next time. Until then, keep pushing us on those issues you care about and we care about, because chances are we're pissed that we can't do it either, and a bit of external pressure always helps. I hope we can do a lot more in the next 4 1/2 years; but I think we are hitting above our weight if you just look at the numbers. And it's worth saying again; FF-Green-Pd-Ind is better than FF-PD-Ind; better to do a little than nothing at all. If we hadn't gone into government, would your aims on Tara/Shannon/Rossport have been achieved then? You can't win them all, but at least we're getting somewhere.

[Twin Towers]

They have probably done wonders for bulk sales of light bulbs.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a ... ge_id=1770

[qtman]

As we approach the end of the year, I would be interested to know if posters believe the Greens have made a difference in their first few months in Government, either positive or negative and what that difference is.

As you will have gathered, this was a fairly pointless exercise.

Posters on this forum are either ultra-partisan or mentally unstable, or both (carguy).

Its particularly odd to read posts from FG posters offering opinions about what difference the GP have made in Government, given that FG could be in Governmentt for 50 years and it would be difficult to discern any difference from what we've had for the last 10 years.

[erigena]

As we approach the end of the year, I would be interested to know if posters believe the Greens have made a difference in their first few months in Government, either positive or negative and what that difference is.

A chairde,
Happy solstice
It is a good time to review the voltes-face of fianna glas with respect to some of the specific issues pointed out here. In particular, let us consider parliamentary questions they asked 200-2007, versus what they did in Government. Sorry if this seems strident; thousands of irish musos have been living in this shadow for 10+ years, and I will post it elsewhere

IMRO
THEN
Gormley asked repeatedly

1.why dissolved companies were allowed to keep trading in the music biz.
2.Why the police investigation was being denied funds

Gogarty asked

1.Why a private Murdoch-affiliated company had been allowed claim they owned Irish trad music, and to issue a licence for it

*In the meantime*; cases were won in the UK and US, showing that the chairman of IMRO, an FF hack, had stolen his members' copyrights. Chair, vice-chair, and CEO of IMRO are all sacked. the licence deal was exposed, inter alia, in the Phoenix

NOW

Fianna glas are utterly silent about these issues. One can only conclude they approve of the ripping off of Irish musicians by FF hacks


DCU

THEN;

G asks about research funds' being stolen; with the exception of cuffe, all the others ask about the illegal disciplinary procedures there, the attempt to bribe students to give evidence against faculty, the illegal cancellation of a subject “science and society”

In the meantime The high Court finds the procedures illegal (Feb 2007), FoI shows S+S should have been given marks, and yes, an attempt was made to bribe students; currently, an external audit is being done of a missing E55k

NOW;

Fianna Glas remains silent.

So part of the coalition deal seems to have been dropping these and other crucial issues. Tara, Shell, Poolbeg, Shannon, are of course other cases in point

IMRO, btw, is perhaps the biggest scam in contemporary ireland, perhaps $10s of millions a year even before the fake accounts that use musicians' names are used. What Fianna glas have done is manage to cover up the truly egregious FF scams with a patina of "morality" about things like global warming/climate change (which, important as it is, will happen no matter what we do; we can perhaps reduce the scale)

[MichaelHennigan]

Getting ahead with Seanad reform, the improvements in insulation standards for new-builds, the banning of incandescent bulbs by 2009 and the changes in VRT are all soild and concrete steps the Greens have taken to improve our environmental ranking from our current seventh placing in the world.

The changes in oil/gas tax treatments introduced by Eamon Ryan is another positive step. The Greens are a very positive influence on Government. Keep up the good work!

God, A-T, politicians love people like yourself.

Your laundry list in most other democracies, would be considered baby steps - the fact that "Seanad reform" gets a mention, illustrates that baby steps are big reform moves in our shambolic governance system where there is limited accountability and the buck stops nowhere.

Insulation standards were introduced in the 1970's. The fact that a government at last upgrades them, is such a bold step??

Light bulbs and a cabinet sub-committee that apparently met once or twice, is so revolutionary. We should't forget of course that other bold step - the publicity campiagn on climate change that was launched by the Taoiseach in November.

John Gormley has shown that a politicians stands on issues of principle and ethics mean SFA when there is a scent of power.

Compare his Planet Bertie address last February with the situation today and the scenario he painted is much worse given the Mahon Tribunal proceedings in recent months.

The Faustian bargain that it was worth the trade for saving the planet is self-serving tripe.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xqkoz7hmc1s&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xqkoz7hmc1s&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[Eddiepops]

Le sigh. As Certain people mentioned above, there have been significant developments in the energy and environment departments, none of which are highly interesting or advertised, all of which are essential in moving Ireland towards a more sustainable society (which is THE core principle of the party, safe to say everything else is secondary to that aim). All that said, I feel we've failed to get much movement outside our portfolios and I'd like to see us try more on that, especially issues of social justice, education and transport.

[CookieMonster]

Has the greens' entry into governement put some strain on the membership?

Oddly enough, there's been a fairly big increase in membership since (not what I expected, to be honest). I don't know anyone from my local branch who's left, but I imagine that some people nationally have done so. Overall numbers are up, that's all I know.

I'd suppose that is all down to the fact that many people who previously thought of then greens as all about bicycles and brussels sprouts saw that there was actually the bones of a legitimate political party, rather than a single issue party with minimal support.
I'm sure the electoral success was down to much of the same, your shrewd electoral game, and also the fact that you were not FF, FG, SF or Labour. Also, not to say you didn't work for what you've got now, you did.

I honestly don't think you've done enough in government. I've been disappointed with the first few months but I'm willing to put it down to Stage fright and wait to see what you can do.
Personally I hope you do start performing soon because if you don't you run the risk of being trampled by the FF beast and crucified by the electorate in the next election. Remember, as many see it, you're in bed with the devil and it's not an easy place to be, he is a horny beast after all!

[ajcahill]

I hope they do make a difference in Gov, but I fear they will end up providing cover for FF and putting FF policies in place.

If I was the greens this is what I would do, I would look to make a real difference in a practical way.

1. Rather than tax cars and a face a backlash, look to create employment / "start your own business" schemes located in tbe new commuter areas- this would reduce the carbon footprint while reducing traffic and improving quality of life. We need to create new businesses and use any natural resources we have to generate wealth, the inward investment days are over unless we are attracting capital because of our creativity.

2. Use the current media focus on cocaine, murder etc to tackle crime and the fear of crime by a.) more cops, with more technology b.) provide community and sports facilities in new communities to divert youth away from drink and drugs c.) look inside the dustbin that is our prison system and put addicts into secure treatment, the mental ill into hospitals otherwise prisons will continue to produce repeat offenders at an alarming rate.

3. Reform of the civil service along the lines of the revenue commissioners. Very few government departments or agencies work well in Ireland because they are badly organised and directed. The civil service is full of untapped potential and creativity. Until this happens the health service etc. will be a mess and our society will continue to fail on many levels. Good public services are good for citizens and essential for business.


Living on "PLANET BERTIE" and holding your noses will have been worth it if some of these things come to pass, otherwise what is the point of being in government, you might aswell walk at the next Bertie day out in the castle.

[ibis]

I hope they do make a difference in Gov, but I fear they will end up providing cover for FF and putting FF policies in place.

If I was the greens this is what I would do, I would look to make a real difference in a practical way.

1. Rather than tax cars and a face a backlash, look to create employment / "start your own business" schemes located in tbe new commuter areas- this would reduce the carbon footprint while reducing traffic and improving quality of life. We need to create new businesses and use any natural resources we have to generate wealth, the inward investment days are over unless we are attracting capital because of our creativity.

2. Use the current media focus on cocaine, murder etc to tackle crime and the fear of crime by a.) more cops, with more technology b.) provide community and sports facilities in new communities to divert youth away from drink and drugs c.) look inside the dustbin that is our prison system and put addicts into secure treatment, the mental ill into hospitals otherwise prisons will continue to produce repeat offenders at an alarming rate.

3. Reform of the civil service along the lines of the revenue commissioners. Very few government departments or agencies work well in Ireland because they are badly organised and directed. The civil service is full of untapped potential and creativity. Until this happens the health service etc. will be a mess and our society will continue to fail on many levels. Good public services are good for citizens and essential for business.


Living on "PLANET BERTIE" and holding your noses will have been worth it if some of these things come to pass, otherwise what is the point of being in government, you might aswell walk at the next Bertie day out in the castle.

Blimey....not one of those suggestions bears any relation to what the Green Party stands for. (cue...)

They're not bad suggestions, but why the Greens?