Farmers fret over Greens - Farmers' Journal

[Ronanr]

I know a farming family who did vote FF when they normally vote FG because they didn't want the Greens.

Indeed. They must feel rather foolish now.

My question to the farmers among us is about the drawbacks of GP policy on this as the farmers see it. Wouldn't it create more industry at home in abatoirs...

I believe that a lot of the live exports are to Muslim countries, where they prefer to have the meat slaughtered at home to ensure that it is done correctly for halal reasons, etc. If those countries could not source live animals in Ireland, they would probably buy live animals elsewhere than buy in frozen meat from Irish abattoirs.

[Barbarian]

I believe that a lot of the live exports are to Muslim countries, where they prefer to have the meat slaughtered at home to ensure that it is done correctly for halal reasons, etc

Incorrect, we export live animals exclusively to european countries.

[rockyracoon]

Farmers are only good for the country in relation to the potential for property development. About a year ago the Minister for Agri (I can't remember her name) was asked an important policy question on agriculture. Her answer: "I don't know". That was it. No qualifier. No, I'll look into it. I don't know, goodbye. Farming is sooo unfashionable.

The Greens won't do any more damage to agriculture than any other party.

[glendaleman]

Artificial fertiliser is made from Natural Gas. Natural Gas is getting more expensive. The Greens want to put in place strategies which will enable farmers to move to more cost effective ways of utilising sources of fertiliser that occur withing the agriculture and food processing industries - primarily anaerobic digestion. Anaerobic Digestion makes slurry yield nutrients in a way that is multiples more efficient than slurry that has not been put through the digester. AD slurry does not smell to the same extent as raw slurry. AD slurry is better suited to slurry injection than raw slurry.

And the farmer gets to sell renewable electricity to the grid, as well as an abundant supply of hot water - build a couple of glasshouses and get into the veg business on the cheap.

The Greens' policies are all about looking into the future, spotting the threats and opportunities, and planning the most effective way to deal with them.

Scary, isn't it?

What a load of nonsense !. Would you please stick to topics about which you know something !

Anaerobic digestion (AD) converts about 20% of the gross energy of organic matter (manure, fodder, waste) into biogas. Of this at most 40% is converted into electricity i.e. 8% of the gross energy in the orginal feedstock. Add in the capital cost 1.5million to 2.0 million Euro for two plants I have seen and you realise that it is a far from cheap source of electricity. In addition both plants expect aboyut 10 to 20% "down time" when gas is flared-off (burnt) to atmosphere.

In Germany, Italy and Denmark producers of "green electricity" are paid 18 to 20 cents per Kwh for electricity supplied to the grid and the reail price of electricity is about 12 cents per Kwh.

So, the consumer is ripped off to support a green agenda.

If you want to conserve energy or generate from waste you will incinerate it (instead of landfill) and recover 20 to 40% of the energy and use animal manure to replace some of the chemical fertiliser.

This stuff is not rocket science !!

Re windmills (from another poster), it takes about 25 years (yes twenty five) to recover the installation cost / carbon foot print.

Another tax scam !!

[Tigrrr]

Farmers are only good for the country in relation to the potential for property development

What are you smoking? Are you trying to say that if farmers shut up shop in the morning and stopped working that there would be no knock on effects? No effects for the animal feeds industries, the meat and processing industries, the rural economy, no resulting unemployment?

About a year ago the Minister for Agri (I can't remember her name) was asked an important policy question on agriculture. Her answer: "I don't know". That was it. No qualifier. No, I'll look into it. I don't know, goodbye.

What was the question?
With respect, if you don't know the name of the Minister for Agriculture, how do you know that it was an important question?

The Greens won't do any more damage to agriculture than any other party.

No other party is suggesting banning live exports, or bringing an end to intensive farming or using artificial fertiliser.
Green policy seems to be made up of completely unscientific nonsense and economically unfeasible garbage.
I really think the only reason they get away with coming up with a lot of this is because they are perceived to be harmless eccentrics.
My experience with members of the green party is that they're the sort of people I'd love to sit next to on a long bus journey, but they're not a party that should be given responsibility with running the country, or meddling with the livelihoods of people dependent on the rural economy.

My question to the farmers among us is about the drawbacks of GP policy on this as the farmers see it. Wouldn't it create more industry at home in abbatoirs and how exactly does it affect the farming community? Is it through potentially falling demand from abroad or what?

Obviously if you can't export animals then you are restricting your market. You can't just expect the domestic market to sustain the sudden increase in animals without domestic meat prices falling.
It isn't really true to say that banning live exports would simply cause more abbatoirs to open, the demand for meat products in Ireland is somewhat fixed.

[Barbarian]

You can't just expect the domestic market to sustain the sudden increase in animals without domestic meat prices falling.
It isn't really true to say that banning live exports would simply cause more abbatoirs to open, the demand for meat products in Ireland is somewhat fixed.

I have asked a few of the Green party members here about this 'local abattoir' fascination without success - The facts are that abattoirs' are rationalising not only in this country but also in the UK, the idea that we can have 100's of small independent abattoirs' around the country operating as cottage industries shows its proponents as being out of touch with reality and indeed the countryside.
Also, the type of cattle sent as live exports are a derivative of the Dairy herd and largely useless for further production as prime beef – they usually find their way into burgers and other manufacturing processes. When they are exported live, they find a good market in Spain and other continental markets for veal – thus acting as a release valve in the market and providing a good return.
We also have an export requirement for beef in this country, we couldn’t possibly eat all the beef we produce – we must export, end of story

[Auditor #9]

Artificial fertiliser is made from Natural Gas. Natural Gas is getting more expensive. The Greens want to put in place strategies which will enable farmers to move to more cost effective ways of utilising sources of fertiliser that occur withing the agriculture and food processing industries - primarily anaerobic digestion. Anaerobic Digestion makes slurry yield nutrients in a way that is multiples more efficient than slurry that has not been put through the digester. AD slurry does not smell to the same extent as raw slurry. AD slurry is better suited to slurry injection than raw slurry.

And the farmer gets to sell renewable electricity to the grid, as well as an abundant supply of hot water - build a couple of glasshouses and get into the veg business on the cheap.

The Greens' policies are all about looking into the future, spotting the threats and opportunities, and planning the most effective way to deal with them.

Scary, isn't it?

What a load of nonsense !. Would you please stick to topics about which you know something !

Anaerobic digestion (AD) converts about 20% of the gross energy of organic matter (manure, fodder, waste) into biogas. Of this at most 40% is converted into electricity i.e. 8% of the gross energy in the orginal feedstock. Add in the capital cost 1.5million to 2.0 million Euro for two plants I have seen and you realise that it is a far from cheap source of electricity. In addition both plants expect aboyut 10 to 20% "down time" when gas is flared-off (burnt) to atmosphere.

In Germany, Italy and Denmark producers of "green electricity" are paid 18 to 20 cents per Kwh for electricity supplied to the grid and the reail price of electricity is about 12 cents per Kwh.

So, the consumer is ripped off to support a green agenda.

If you want to conserve energy or generate from waste you will incinerate it (instead of landfill) and recover 20 to 40% of the energy and use animal manure to replace some of the chemical fertiliser.

This stuff is not rocket science !!

Re windmills (from another poster), it takes about 25 years (yes twenty five) to recover the installation cost / carbon foot print.

Another tax scam !!

I'm no expert but I beg to differ, glendaleman. The cost of green electricity at present is high for the same reasons my DVD player cost 100 times more when it first appeared. Economy of scale I think is the expression. Another thing is that whereas the price of oil is rising, manure energy should stay the same with time.

Windmills are the same - costs will be static over time unless the market is successfully deregulated and competition introduced and demand rises for green energy. This is happening - could be a good idea to invest in green if you want to make money later. And so many myths surround turbines regarding output and constancy of wind - i live near a 12MW farm which never seems to be at rest. 1 MW, it is estimated, generates enough electricity to power 250-300 homes.

www.iwea.com
and USA: http://web1.msue.msu.edu/wind/windbasics.htm


There is also a positive moral element to cleaner energy - some oil companies use child labor. Personally I would rather know where my energy comes from.