Niall Ó Brolcháin omits Green Party logo from Seanad election literature

[jmcc]

I have no party affiliation I assure in case you think I am Niall O'Brolchain,

Nah. I don't think you are the man on the Bullet Train.

The point about the universities and the ITs is that much of the university infrastructure was inherited from the British (the old NIHE Dublin and NIHE Limerick were homegrown efforts). These inherited universities are in effect competing with the IT infrastructure and with UL and DCU to a lesser extent. While the ITs were intended to supply qualified people for industry, the universities were not really competing at the same level and as the ITs developed along the technological route, they began to introduce technological degrees, thus intruding on one of the main areas of universities. The establishment of the NIHEs could be considered an attempt to shore up the then existing university model while acknowledging that the 20th century had changed things but it only offset a solution rather than providing a solution. There needs to be an integrated approach to third and fourth level education.

It would also attract good quality candidates to local politics and ensure that people work their way up the cursus honorem instead of trying to get a free lunch off the taxpayer in the Seanad.

Theoretically. However the Seanad is a dumping ground and the best thing would be to delete it and start again.

Have a look at this thread, there was a really excellent debate on political reform in it

http://www.politics.ie/political-ref...ou-change.html

I'll take a look at it.

Regards...jmcc

[Neilob]

[QUOTE=jmcc;3726678]Nah. I don't think you are the man on the Bullet Train.

The point about the universities and the ITs is that much of the university infrastructure was inherited from the British (the old NIHE Dublin and NIHE Limerick were homegrown efforts). These inherited universities are in effect competing with the IT infrastructure and with UL and DCU to a lesser extent. While the ITs were intended to supply qualified people for industry, the universities were not really competing at the same level and as the ITs developed along the technological route, they began to introduce technological degrees, thus intruding on one of the main areas of universities. The establishment of the NIHEs could be considered an attempt to shore up the then existing university model while acknowledging that the 20th century had changed things but it only offset a solution rather than providing a solution. There needs to be an integrated approach to third and fourth level education.

Zoikes, TCD is the only Irish university that has been consistently in the top 100 world Universities, UCD has just made it, Cork is heading there and Galway is following behind. Unfortunately UL and DCU are pretty far down the list at the moment and the IT's really aren't at the races at all. Do you honestly propose that third level institutes which have an educational tradition of hundreds of years and have produced a wealth of top class graduates should be shut down because they were established by Royal Charter? the suggestion that the universities are not really competing at the same level as the ITs in technological disciplines is frankly laughable.

I think that if anything we should start by shutting most of the Institutes of Technology immediately and redistributing their staff to the remaining few, and build these ones up as colleges worthy of the title 'Institute of Technology' like MIT. Personally I think that WIT has worked hard to survive, and so probably has Cork, GMIT and definitely DIT. The rest should be consolidated and the funds redistributed to build research at fourth level in the Technical Institutes, which is currently next to non-existent.

[jmcc]

Zoikes, TCD is the only Irish university that has been consistently in the top 100 world Universities, UCD has just made it, Cork is heading there and Galway is following behind.

I'm sure that it will only take them another few decades. The problem is that nobody outside of academia really gives a damn about this bigger dickism stuff when they are trying to pay their mortgage and put food on the table.

Do you honestly propose that third level institutes which have an educational tradition of hundreds of years and have produced a wealth of top class graduates should be shut down because they were established by Royal Charter?

No. I don't propose anything.

the suggestion that the universities are not really competing at the same level as the ITs in technological disciplines is frankly laughable.

Well if you bothered to read what I wrote instead of just mangling the quote, it should be apparent that the emphasis is different in each case. The ITs were set up to meet a demand from industry that wasn't being met by the universities. The universities at the time were apparently concentrating on four year degrees and were not really specialising in providing technician level courses. However the universities weren't meeting the demands and the ITs provided a natural upgrade path for their technology courses (National Cert - National Diploma - Degree). This was something that the universities did not have (from what I remember). The universities were, (to use the Shakespearian form), very much jacks of all trades whereas the ITs had a more clearly defined objective.

build these ones up as colleges worthy of the title 'Institute of Technology' like MIT.

I think that this was the intent with NIHE Dublin, NIHE Limerick and to some extent, Waterford IT. However lobbying from Cork meant that some Labourite minister had to upgrade all Regional Technical Colleges to ITs. It was a move typical of the gombeenism that has screwed up this country. And if things are so egalitarian in Galway, why does Galway have an IT a few miles away from Galway university?

Regards...jmcc

[miclin]

I would vote for O Brolchain if I were a NUI graduate but I only made it to TCD. Looking through the list of candidates, I was going to vote for Karin Dubsky as the most eco-friendly candidate.
Karin Dubsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
but she's not running now:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...292775315.html

I'm happy enough with Norris and Bacik on the basis of their liberal viewpoints.

[Neilob]

I would vote for O Brolchain if I were a NUI graduate but I only made it to TCD. Looking through the list of candidates, I was going to vote for Karin Dubsky as the most eco-friendly candidate.
Karin Dubsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
but she's not running now:
'Don't vote for me', TCD candidate tells electors - The Irish Times - Tue, Mar 22, 2011

I'm happy enough with Norris and Bacik on the basis of their liberal viewpoints.

You have your choices from the TCD panel. It's all pretty arse isn't it? Why don't they ask all of us which public representatives they want instead of little elites. I have never bothered exercising my NUI franchise - what crap.

[miclin]

here's my choice
1. Frost
2. Hanan
3. Norris
4. Bacik
5. McDonagh

This is on the basis of their green credentials below.


1 BACIK, Ivana Catherine Senator
(says she's an environmentalist on the basis of her work on the climate change oireachtas committee. I think she's pretending but she gets a mark for pretence.)

2. BARRETT, Sean Senior Lecturer, Trinity College Dublin
(the man who opposed DART & Luas and says the solution to all transport problems is the bus - nope)

3. COLEMAN, Marc Broadcaster, Journalist, Economist
(know him from college. too conservative for me)

4. CONNOLLY, Bart Housewife, Science Writer, Community Activist
(No environmental policies listed on website. I don't like the philosophy of Irish skeptics which he founded)

5. COX, Maeve TCD Graduate, Barrister-at-Law Degree Student
(no environmental policies)

6. DONNELLY, Francis Vincent Chief Financial Officer, Company Director
(not running now I think)

7. DUBSKY, Karin
(not running)

8. DUDGEON, Jeffrey Edward Anthony Author, Human Rights Campaigner, Former Civil Servant
(gay unionist - no website yet)

9. FROST, Dermot IT Specialist
(Green energy and transport policies gets a vote)

10. GUÉRET, Maurice Medical Doctor
(no environmental policies on web site)

11. HANAN, Robin Social Justice Advocate
(an environmentalist a bit left for me but still gets a vote)

12. MC DONAGH, Rosaleen Traveller Activist and Playwright
(traveller and disabled gets a vote)

13. MC GOVERN, Iggy Physicist and Poet
(poet and scientist is pretty cool but no mention of environmentalism)

14. MARTIN, David Secondary School Teacher
(The trade union rep)

15. NORRIS, David Patrick Public Representative
(Has spoken a lot of environmental issues in the seanad and is to be admired for his success in promoting gay rights laws)

16. O’MALLEY, Fiona Senator
(too conservative. saw her canvassing for FF this year.)

17. PRIESTLY, William Youth Work Co-ordinator
(no environmental policies)

18. QUINN, Graham Thomas Solicitor
(don't know him)

19. SHEEHAN, Dermot Francis Barrister
(no environmental policies)

20. WILLIAMS, Tony Solicitor
(ex PD can't find a website)

[Analyzer]

Are they embarrassed about him, or is he embarrassed about them ?

I suppose either is a possibility ?