The Greens and Ministerial Pensions.

[TommyO'Brien]

It has nothing to do with my view on the Greens.

It has everything to do with brain-dead gobsh1tes demeaning political debate by constantly harping about what politicians are paid.

The vast, vast majority of people who participate in the political system do so at a cost to themselves.

I know that. And yes the endless whining about politicians' pay can be annoying, though you and I know that from the days when politicians were grossly underpaid, thanks to McCreevy it went to the other extreme.

You and I both know that the original concept of a ministerial pension was kosher. It was to stop guys with experience when they left government when their party lost power leaving politics for the private sector, and so meaning you constantly lost people with experience. It wasn't a pension at all in a normal sense. It was in effect a graduated pay scale so that the more experience you had the more you got paid rather than be lured away from politics. But when McCreevy changed the payment system and made it very financially worthwhile to stay in, these 'pensions' should have been abolished. But instead he created a new way to incrementalise the pay scale based on experience, yet kept the old incremental system in place as well, which was, well, dumb.

But the thing is that you and I both are in a position to know the truth about politicians' pay. Most people here aren't and no little more than the lies in the media. As a journalist colleague once joked to me, "we are not in the business of telling the truth. We are in the business of stirring up sh1t!". A lot of people here actually believe what they read in newspapers, particularly tabloids.

You could have explained why his original post was wrong. But snapping his head off wasn't the best idea.

[spidermom]

It has nothing to do with my view on the Greens.

It has everything to do with brain-dead gobsh1tes demeaning political debate by constantly harping about what politicians are paid.

The vast, vast majority of people who participate in the political system do so at a cost to themselves.

Agree with Goosebump...should be noted that we disagree on a hell of a lot...especially health care!!


IF this rotation goes through..it has s*d all to do with the greens qualifying for a pension!!
(wish it was...then we could nail them up...but its not!!......)

[just4ever]

Well do Tommy or Goosebump care to elaborate on which points I am wrong and maybe direct to links?

[goosebump]

Well do Tommy or Goosebump care to elaborate on which points I am wrong and maybe direct to links?

There was a 3 year provision in the original 1992 Act but this was amended by Ministerial regulation at a later date to allow for a graduated pension after 2 years service, as described above.

Gormley and Ryan became entitled to partial Ministerial pensions in June 2009, and much to the chagrin of posters on this site, didn't resign the next day.

[OceanFrog]

There was a 3 year provision in the original 1992 Act but this was amended by Ministerial regulation at a later date to allow for a graduated pension after 2 years service, as described above.

Gormley and Ryan became entitled to partial Ministerial pensions in June 2009, and much to the chagrin of posters on this site, didn't resign the next day.

So this is what you are saying now.

But you said the following a few days ago...

No new pensions entitlements arise for any Green TDs or Ministers between now and 2012.

So which is true? Or are you just making this all up as you go along?

Are you now willing to admit (in light of the information produced in this thread) that your quote above about "no new pensions entitlements for any Green TDs or Ministers between now and 2012" is incorrect and inaccurate?

How did you get this so terribly wrong?



.

[just4ever]

Thank you ivnryan and goosebump for the clarification. So the Green Plan is to allow Deputy Cuffe to also qualify for a 25% pension regardless of whether he is the right person for the job and regardless of whether he is the taoiseachs choice. Is Minister Ryan really capable of being bought with the offer of a full term in exchange for not challenging Gormley for the leadership?

[gombeennation]

The vast, vast majority of people who participate in the political system do so at a cost to themselves.

I was going to pull you up on this and ask you to name as many TDs as you can that you think are actually costing themselves money.
but i realised that you would use a nice get out.
ie you would explain that you were talking about "who participate in the political system"
which is a very broad term.
you local fool who goes canvassing for the FF thieves for instance would do so because he would expect backhanders or some planning deal to go his way or something like that.
he would dip his hand in his pocket or use his time ( or dignity ) to go door to door.

but if you are looking at the crowd that actually get paid - ie TDs ministers etc.
can you give me an example of any of those pigs and the trough who you think might be actually losing money?
bear in mind the likes of that flynn creature out the west was putting in huge mileage allowances.
and the likes of JOD was living the rock star lifestyle.
the "expenses" he put in for cements the idea that he pays for nothing when going abroad to horse races or film festivals.

anyway , back to you point - name and shame - or STFU

[ivnryn]

Ok interesting, do you know a link to it?

Not really, picked it up from various threads.

Anyway, it seems this bill, covers 2-3 years. The previous section covers 3+ years.

"13AA.—(1) This section applies to a person to whom section 13A applies where, on ceasing to hold a qualifying office—

(a) the person has completed not less than 2 years, but less than 3 years, of ministerial service, or

(b) the person has completed not less than 2 years, but less than 3 years, of secretarial service.

(2) A person referred to in subsection (1)(a) is, on ceasing to hold office, entitled to a ministerial pension calculated at the rate of 20 per cent of the appropriate salary, plus an additional amount calculated in accordance with subsection (4)."

So, more than 2 and less than 3 is actually 20%, not 25% as I thought.

There is a 5% per year bonus and it is paid based on the number of days over 2 years.

Anyway, the formula is (from what I can see).

20% + (years - 2)*5%

but only kicks in after 2 years. Also, the max years is 10.

If the person was the Tanaiste for less than 3 years, then it depends on what fraction of the time that person was Tanaiste (so the reference salary is somewhere between the current Minister and Tanaiste's salary).

I can't seem to find anything about TD's pensions.

[goosebump]

you local fool who goes canvassing for the FF thieves for instance would do so because he would expect backhanders or some planning deal to go his way or something like that.

The 'local fools' who participate in grass roots politics are essential to the functioning of the State.

Internet warriors hyped up on media-driven paranoia are not.

[goosebump]

Thank you ivnryan and goosebump for the clarification. So the Green Plan is to allow Deputy Cuffe to also qualify for a 25% pension regardless of whether he is the right person for the job and regardless of whether he is the taoiseachs choice.

According to everybody except the members of the Green Parliamentary Party, yes.

Do you know what a 'slow news day' is?

Did you know that when Ruairi Quinn was Minister for Finance he organised a pre-Budget Dinner, where the invitations were sent out on DOF notepaper, at €100 per head, the proceeds of which were to be diverted to the Labour Party.

Did you know that the Labour Party accepted donations from AIB, BOI and Anglo over the last 10 years?