Dutch criminalise the Burqa

[Bogwarrior]

I'm quite shocked that a country which revels in it's "liberal freedom", and permits almost all sexual deviances, drug use, and radical viewpoints can criminalise the attire of people based on their creed.
The reason they gave, public safety and security, just doesn't wash. Should we tell Orthodox Jews or Christians to remove their hats, cut their curls and remove their beards? Or Nuns their veils.
I've been to Holland, and witnessed the streets of puke, whores in shop windows, hash cafes, open air public toilets, strung out junkies, 70's style porn icon moustaches and mullets, and sterotype gays in leather chaps and biker hats. I thought, hey, this place is a liberal Utopia. Anything goes! Seems not. Just like the Taliban forced women to wear Burqas, now the Dutch Taliban are forcing them not to wear them.One Mayor's even called for women who wear the Burqa to be denied welfare. Has the Burqa ever been an issue in Leinster House?

[Respvblica]

I'm quite shocked that a country which revels in it's "liberal freedom", and permits almost all sexual deviances, drug use, and radical viewpoints can criminalise the attire of people based on their creed.
The reason they gave, public safety and security, just doesn't wash. Should we tell Orthodox Jews or Christians to remove their hats, cut their curls and remove their beards? Or Nuns their veils.
I've been to Holland, and witnessed the streets of puke, whores in shop windows, hash cafes, open air public toilets, strung out junkies, 70's style porn icon moustaches and mullets, and sterotype gays in leather chaps and biker hats. I thought, hey, this place is a liberal Utopia. Anything goes! Seems not. Just like the Taliban forced women to wear Burqas, not the Dutch Taliban are forcing them not to wear them.One Mayor's even called for women who wear the Burqa to be denied welfare. Has the Burqa ever been an issue in Leinster House?

I lived there 5 years and know what you are talking about. A councillor in Rotterdam has caused for forced abortions for women from irresponsible immigrant communities. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=48930
Basically the Netherlands and most of the west are only tolerant of things that dont really harm their status quo. So if you spend money all your money on drugs and whores, thats ok , but if you clean up your life, join with others etc, you are considered a threat. Its a Hypocracy not a Democracy

[forest]

I've been to Holland, and witnessed the streets of puke, whores in shop windows, hash cafes, open air public toilets, strung out junkies, 70's style porn icon moustaches and mullets, and sterotype gays in leather chaps and biker hats

yea its a great place

I too am concerned, although I understand the reasoning behind it, I cant help feel that’s it simply regulating what people wear and I think people should be allowed wear what they want

[cyberianpan]

Liberals quite sensibly realise when they are under attack, liberalism does not mean allowing yourself to be attacked. Being under attack is not balck/white yes/no - there are some shades of grey.

Now muslims can preach hate all they want, they can signal things, they can wear odd clothes however a burqa in public is beyond clothing. It clearly serves to obscure the face. In public you have to be willing to be indentified... if you are not willing to be indentified you have no right to any human rights, you could be a chimpanzee in a burqa suit.

Would balaclavas be acceptable in public ? Guaranteed anonymity is not acceptable, yes such does not guarantee that you are going to commit a crime but it raises the stakes too high. Similarily we don't allow people wear swords in public as , whilst the sword wearing might be innocent it carries too high a risk.

There are shades of grey in liberalism which are needed to see that criminals don't run amok or that evil revolutionaries don't take over.

Also from common politieness you don't invade a culture & try to get all your own way you compromise & attempt to integrate. Wearing a burqa is wholly inimical to communication & integration. No this reason wouldn't be grounds for a legal ban, not unless soicety/social order iself was under threat but on common human decency it could be expected.

cYp

[Xipe Totec]

In public you have to be willing to be indentified... if you are not willing to be indentified you have no right to any human rights...

Would balaclavas be acceptable in public ? Guaranteed anonymity is not acceptable, yes such does not guarantee that you are going to commit a crime but it raises the stakes too high.

What if the state were to identify me through its ubitquitous surveillance devices, track my movements and actions, accumulating as much information about me as possible in a centralised database?
And vary its treatment of me according to the information stored?

If others in society violate your trust and your rights, surely you should be able to protect yourself.

Also from common politieness you don't invade a culture & try to get all your own way you compromise & attempt to integrate. Wearing a burqa is wholly inimical to communication & integration. No this reason wouldn't be grounds for a legal ban, not unless soicety/social order iself was under threat but on common human decency it could be expected.

cYp

Since when does impoliteness warrant such a draconian clampdown?

[Schuhart]

I think its firstly necessary to get a sense of proportion. According to the article on the BBC website

An estimated 6% of 16 million people living in the Netherlands are Muslims.

But there are thought to be fewer than 100 women who choose to wear the burqa, a traditional Islamic form of dress.

What we’re talking about is very much a minority practice, which very few Western Muslims see as a religious obligation. I would see it as next door to being a fetish. In fact, the more one reflects on it, the more that emerges as an equivalent.

I can’t see the point of banning someone from wearing a rubber dress on the street. I would expect that a teacher turning up for work in a rubber dress (of either gender) to be sent home to change. I’d take that to be common sense.

[FutureTaoiseach]

Down with the burqa. It is a barrier to assimilation and integration, and the Dutch people are right to crack down on Islamic fundamentalism and barriers to assimilation - which obviously includes customs like the burqa which represent Islamist suppression of women.

[Tess]

[color=indigo]
We are approaching 2007 - come on guys, would you like to see your woman in a burqa? Some people compare it to a nun's habit, but this is silly, nun's are a religious order and (even they don't cover their faces)

does anyone really believe that a young girl want to wear this awful gear? This dress code has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with muslim men - who are the sleziest men in the world.

Tess[/color]

[smiffy]

We are approaching 2007 - come on guys, would you like to see your woman in a burqa?

Is this directed to all 'guys', or just those lucky enough to own a woman?

[rkeane]

Excellent News...all EU states should ban the burqa. As mentioned by FT, the burqa is a barrier to assimilation and integration.