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  1. #21
    Nodin Nodin is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Brooks View Post
    You have no proof of that assertion whatsoever. It was the Government of Israel which demanded and enforced the Gaza Strip as a Jew Free Zone.
    What the people wanted was a settler free zone. I'd imagine much the same reaction if they were a bunch of hippys (8,000 violent hippys protected by 30,000 troops and taking 30% of the total and best land area in Gaza).
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  2. #22
    Interista Interista is offline
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    What if the settlers do not leave or do not apply for Palestinian citizenship?
    Then Israel's got a civil war on its hand, one which could well lead to the destruction of the state of Israel.

    Not that I feel sorry for them. If you encourage half a million people - many of them armed and fanatic - to colonise stolen land, you're storing up major problems for yourself. However, this is what every single Israeli government has done since 1967. Ben Gurion was right: the 'settlement's are going to turn around and bite Israel in the ass some time in the not too distant future. Seems like a lose-lose situation for Israel in the long term.
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  3. #23
    Darth Brooks Darth Brooks is offline

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    Facts are clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nodin View Post
    What the people wanted was a settler free zone. I'd imagine much the same reaction if they were a bunch of hippys (8,000 violent hippys protected by 30,000 troops and taking 30% of the total and best land area in Gaza).
    Speculation and imagination is not much of a replacement for actual demonstrable facts. It was the Government of Israel which forcefully cleared the Gaza Strip of all it's Jewish colonists. It was the Government of Israel which gave the order that the Gaza Strip must be a "Jew Free Zone" (as put by Chaim)
    And finally it was the government of Israel who enforced the order with troops and police.
    I'm just putting Chaim straight on this. The government of Israel forbid any of them to remain in Gaza because they wanted Gaza to be a Jew Free Zone.
    These are the facts.
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  4. #24
    zakalwe1 zakalwe1 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Brooks View Post
    It is becoming clear that Israel's new Prime Minister, Benjamin (Bibi) Netanhyahu, is currently on a collision course with the new President of the United States, Barak Obama, over the steps Israel is being required to take to show it's committement to bringing about a Peace agreement with the Palestinians in the format of the long preferred two-state solution.
    The American administration has called for a complete settlement freeze in order that they can progress with negotiations with Palestinians and the Arab world at large for a comprehensive regional peace agreement.

    But, for the slow learner, what exactly do they mean by this ?

    Jewish neighborhoods in east Jerusalem are included in the US demand that Israel halt "settlement" construction, including for natural growth, State Department spokesman Ian Kelly told The Jerusalem Post during a press briefing on Monday.

    "We're talking about all settlement activity, yes, in the area across the line," he said, referring to neighborhoods in Jerusalem over the Green Line, or pre-1967 armistice line, in response to a question on where America's calls to halt construction in the settlements would be applied.


    US: Settlement freeze includes east J'lem | Israel | Jerusalem Post

    The current right wing Israeli government maintians that this is unreasonable as the "Natural Growth" of the settlements need to be catered for. By natural growth they are referring to the housing units that would be required to house the offspring of the people currently living in settlements who wish to move out of their paternal homes yet continue to live at the same location. Or in the words of Israel's Bibi :

    "We can't accept the idea that families will not bring children into the world, or that children will have to move away from their parents"

    The problem with all this, is that in the eyes of most of the world, the settlements i.e. all construction East of the 1967 Armistice Line are illegal under International Law. For example, below is the statement by B'tselem the Israeli Human Rights group on the illegality of the Settlements under International Law
    __________________________________________
    [SIZE="2"]International law

    The establishment of settlements in the West Bank violates international humanitarian law which establishes principles that apply during war and occupation. Moreover, the settlements lead to the infringement of international human rights law.

    The Fourth Geneva Convention prohibits an occupying power from transferring citizens from its own territory to the occupied territory (Article 49). The Hague Regulations prohibit an occupying power from undertaking permanent changes in the occupied area unless these are due to military needs in the narrow sense of the term, or unless they are undertaken for the benefit of the local population.

    The establishment of settlements results in the violation of the rights of Palestinians as enshrined in international human rights law. Among other violations, the settlements infringe the right to self-determination, equality, property, an adequate standard of living, and freedom of movement.

    The illegality of the settlements under international humanitarian law does not affect the status of the settlers. The settlers constitute a civilian population by any standard, and include children, who are entitled to special protection. Although some of the settlers are part of the security forces, this fact has absolutely no bearing on the status of the other residents of the settlements[/SIZE]


    _____________________________________________

    The primary requirement for the success of a Two-State Solution is a viable contiguous land mass upon which the proposed Palestinian State can come into existence. It cannot be denied that without this minimal requirement the Two-State Solution is not possible. Many argue that with the extent of settlement construction already present in the lands East of the 1967 Armistice Line, the Two-State Solution is already defunct and only a One-State or Bi-National State Solution is now practical. A look at the map of the current state of settlement construction across the West Bank , along with the intricate maze of checkpoints and access roads suggests a very poor prognosis indeed for the likelihood of the formation of a contiguous state from the fragmented areas of land left unaffected by the settlements and the illegal infrastructure which services them.

    http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/fullMaps_Sa.nsf/luFullMap/968C7B002996C08E85257401004E9B70/$File/ocha_ACC_pse080106.pdf

    This burning issue of the settlements is not the only problem facing the parties who truly wish to seek a just and lasting peace agreement for this decades long conflict but for Bibi and Barak it seems to be the issue over which they are both destined to lock horns and show to each of their constituencies the strength of their resolve.
    For Barack Obama nothing less than US international prestige is at stake here as he hopes to prove that the US is the only broker capable of bringing the parties together under fair circumstances.
    For Bibi it is his position as Prime Minister that is on the line as he dares not show weakness in the face of this rising US pressure.
    For the settlers it is a day of reckoning that has been long in the making and for the Palestinians it is their last hope of forming an Independent Palestinian State.
    So there can be no doubt that the stakes are high and that this question of the Settlements must be dealt with comprehensively in order that the last chance for peace is not missed.

    Znet: Israelís Settlement Blocs Carve Up the West Bank | International Solidarity Movement Palestine

    As Palestinians, we have expressed our willingness to live together on this land with the Jewish people, and to live in one democratic state with Jewish Israelis as equal citizens. However, most Jewish Israelis and their politicians have clearly stated that they must live in a Jewish state, not in a state for all of its citizens. For this reason, we agreed to live in two states- Palestine side by side with Israel.
    In 1974 turkish troops invaded northern cyprus and since then turkish settlers have been planted in the area.

    these things happen. and UN non-binding rulings are ignored by all sides.

    you wouldn't be advocating treating israel differently to other nations would you?
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  5. #25
    Interista Interista is offline
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    you wouldn't be advocating treating israel differently to other nations would you?
    You wouldn't be playing the same old broken record over and over would you?
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  6. #26
    zakalwe1 zakalwe1 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interista View Post
    You wouldn't be playing the same old broken record over and over would you?
    you mean like the OP?

    how many feckin middle east threads do we need???? i get it, you don't like israel/treatment of palestinians/US imperialist capitalist CIA pigs (delete as appropriate).
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  7. #27
    yanshuf yanshuf is offline

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    you wouldn't be advocating treating israel differently to other nations would you?
    Yes they would.

    Just like everything else in this forum has one criterion for the world and another for Israel, they would expect Israel to do what others don't.

    Have you ever heard a call to disolve Gibraltar?

    This is a joke! Jews have more rights to settle in Judea Samaria and Gaza than the Spanish have to Ceuta and Melilla, the Russians to Sibiria and Americans, Canadians and Australians have to their territory.

    What we see here is a sham concern to the "peace" process.
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  8. #28
    Interista Interista is offline
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    how many feckin middle east threads do we need????
    I'll say the same to you as people say to the Mary Whitehouse brigade: If you don't like it, don't watch it. Nobody is forcing you to read these thread and to offer your apologia for Israel.

    its plain to everyone, except a select few, that this "kidnapping" was a stunt to generate hysterical publicity.
    If it does draw attention to the plight of Gazans, that's a good thing. I know people like you would much prefer if Israel could commit crimes against humanity without publicity, but that's just too bad.
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  9. #29
    Interista Interista is offline
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    BTW this thread isn't even about the kidnapping. Couldn't be that you're posting on both threads, while lamenting the fact that poor lil Israel gets criticized too often, could it?
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  10. #30
    SPDSW SPDSW is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by zakalwe1 View Post
    In 1974 turkish troops invaded northern cyprus and since then turkish settlers have been planted in the area.

    these things happen. and UN non-binding rulings are ignored by all sides.

    you wouldn't be advocating treating israel differently to other nations would you?
    Well I for one personally am now happy at all at the division of Cyprus. I hope that one day the Island will be unified, but sadly as it stands, this would be under Capitalism, which would not benefit the people in any real way, division or unification.

    As for the settlements in the West Bank and Gaza, they are illegal -end of.

    message from keyword search
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