Ahmadinejad 'wins' again

[fergalr]

When in doubt, turn to Fareed Zakaria.

Iran Updates (VIDEO): Live-Blogging The Uprising

[cactusflower]

[quote=IvoShandor;1776602][quote=cactusflower;1776038]

The USA is geared-in theory-to fight multi-theatre wars, as it did in the Second World War, but that was a war of necessity not choice. A war on this scale would require input and resources that would dwarf the wars it is already engaged in. Where is the money going to come from, I wonder? You have not shown the slightest bit of evidence that the USA is preparing to invade Iran. I would be expecting the arrival of half a million more troops in Iraq by now, the arrival of three hundred thousand more in Afghanistan and the changing of US dispositions in Afghanistan towards the Iranian border. In the absence of anything like this I conclude you are talking through your hat.

I haven't suggested an imminent land invasion. I find it hard to believe that you can deny that Iran has been under military threat from the US and Israel at this stage for years. I could offer you hundreds of links - here's a few to get you started.

US threatens Iran as troops plan attacked - Telegraph

Iran Focus*****-*****U.S. threatens to bomb Iran sites “after a month” – report

Clinton Threatens to Attack Iran ‘The Way That We Did’ Iraq -- News from Antiwar.com

US threatens Iran with military strike at its nuclear sites

Cheney threatens Iran from US aircraft carrier in Persian Gulf

THe US are already spending millions on attacking Iran:

The war between the United States and Iran is on. American taxpayer dollars are being used, with the permission of Congress, to fund activities which result in Iranians being killed and wounded, and Iranian property destroyed. This wanton violation of a nation’s sovereignty would not be tolerated if the tables were turned and Americans were being subjected to Iranian-funded covert actions which took the lives of Americans, on American soil, and destroyed American property and livelihood. Many Americans remain unaware of what is transpiring abroad in their name. Many of those who are cognizant of these activities are supportive of them, an outgrowth of misguided sentiment which holds Iran accountable for a list of grievances used by the U.S. government to justify the ongoing global war on terror. Iran, we are told, is not just a nation pursuing nuclear weapons, but is the largest state sponsor of terror in the world today.

Much of the information behind this is being promulgated by Israel, which has a vested interest in seeing Iran neutralized as a potential threat. But Israel is joined by another source, even more puzzling in terms of its broad-based acceptance in the world of American journalism: the Mujahadeen-e Khalk, or MEK, an Iranian opposition group sworn to overthrow the theocracy in Tehran. The CIA today provides material support to the actions of the MEK inside Iran. The recent spate of explosions in Iran, including a particularly devastating “accident” involving a military convoy transporting ammunition in downtown Tehran, appears to be linked to an MEK operation; its agents working inside munitions manufacturing plants deliberately are committing acts of sabotage which lead to such explosions. If CIA money and planning support are behind these actions, the agency’s backing constitutes nothing less than an act of war on the part of the United States against Iran.

The MEK traces its roots back to the CIA-orchestrated overthrow of the democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadeg. Formed among students and intellectuals, the MEK emerged in the 1960s as a serious threat to the reign of Reza Shah Pahlevi. Facing brutal repression from the Shah’s secret police, the SAVAK, the MEK became expert at blending into Iranian society, forming a cellular organizational structure which made it virtually impossible to eradicate. The MEK membership also became adept at gaining access to positions of sensitivity and authority. When the Shah was overthrown in 1978, the MEK played a major role and for a while worked hand in glove with the Islamic Revolution in crafting a post-Shah Iran. In 1979 the MEK had a central role in orchestrating the seizure of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, and holding 55 Americans hostage for 444 days.

However, relations between the MEK and the Islamic regime in Tehran soured, and after the MEK staged a bloody coup attempt in 1981, all ties were severed and the two sides engaged in a violent civil war. Revolutionary Guard members who were active at that time have acknowledged how difficult it was to fight the MEK. In the end, massive acts of arbitrary arrest, torture and executions were required to break the back of mainstream MEK activity in Iran, although even the Revolutionary Guard today admits the MEK remains active and is virtually impossible to completely eradicate.

It is this stubborn ability to survive and operate inside Iran, at a time when no other intelligence service can establish and maintain a meaningful agent network there, which makes the MEK such an asset to nations such as the United States and Israel. The MEK is able to provide some useful intelligence; however, its overall value as an intelligence resource is negatively impacted by the fact that it is the sole source of human intelligence in Iran. As such, the group has taken to exaggerating and fabricating reports to serve its own political agenda. In this way, there is little to differentiate the MEK from another Middle Eastern expatriate opposition group, the Iraqi National Congress, or INC, which infamously supplied inaccurate intelligence to the United States and other governments and helped influence the U.S. decision to invade Iraq and overthrow Saddam Hussein. Today, the MEK sees itself in a similar role, providing sole-sourced intelligence to the United States and Israel in an effort to facilitate American military operations against Iran and, eventually, to overthrow the Islamic regime in Tehran.

The current situation concerning the MEK would be laughable if it were not for the violent reality of that organization’s activities. Upon its arrival in Iraq in 1986, the group was placed under the control of Saddam Hussein’s Mukhabarat, or intelligence service. The MEK was a heavily militarized organization and in 1988 participated in division-size military operations against Iran. The organization represents no state and can be found on the U.S. State Department’s list of terrorist organizations, yet since the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003 the MEK has been under the protection of the U.S. military. Its fighters are even given “protected status” under the Geneva conventions. The MEK says that its members in Iraq are refugees, not terrorists. And yet one would be hard-pressed to find why the 1951 Geneva Convention on Refugees should confer refugee status on an active paramilitary organization that uses “refugee camps” inside Iraq as its bases.

The MEK is behind much of the intelligence being used by the International Atomic Energy Agency in building its case that Iran may be pursuing (or did in fact pursue in the past) a nuclear weapons program. The complexity of the MEK-CIA relationship was recently underscored by the agency’s acquisition of a laptop computer allegedly containing numerous secret documents pertaining to an Iranian nuclear weapons program. Much has been made about this computer and its contents. The United States has led the charge against Iran within international diplomatic circles, citing the laptop information as the primary source proving Iran’s ongoing involvement in clandestine nuclear weapons activity. Of course, the information on the computer, being derived from questionable sources (i.e., the MEK and the CIA, both sworn enemies of Iran) is controversial and its veracity is questioned by many, including me.

*****Acts of War : Information Clearing House - ICH

This is only one of several violent campaigns of destabilisation being currently undertaken in Iran by the US and Israeli governments through their agents.

[cactusflower]

When in doubt, turn to Fareed Zakaria.

Iran Updates (VIDEO): Live-Blogging The Uprising

Yes, that's exactly what they do. I enjoyed the piece that said that all the tens (if not hundreds) of thousands out to celebrate were soldieres in civvies or bussed in culchies. That must have taken quite a bit of organisation.

[IvoShandor]

[quote=cactusflower;1776903][quote=IvoShandor;1776602]

I haven't suggested an imminent land invasion. I find it hard to believe that you can deny that Iran has been under military threat from the US and Israel at this stage for years. I could offer you hundreds of links - here's a few to get you started.

Forgive me for stating that you suggested an imminent land invasion. It was Merle haggard who did....naturally.

"For years" Old links, I can hardly see why the doings of Cheney are relevant. Obama is in the White House and it is his policy that is relevant now. Obama put out an olive branch to Iran and we'll see how this pathetic anti-semite with the dubious mandate responds.

[cactusflower]

[quote][QUOTE=IvoShandor;1777001][quote=cactusflower;1776903]

And yes, you did suggest an imminent land invasion.

I said the Iran was under threat of bombing and invasion. I don't believe a land invasion is imminent. The US is already killing people inside Iran. I think that the US want a cheap victory by destabilising from within and Israel clearly wants to bomb.

"For years" Old links, I can hardly see why the doings of Cheney is relevant now. Obama is in the White House and it is his policy that is relevant now.

So Obama has called off the dogs ? Where's the evidence of that ?

Have these people all gone home to their families?

breaking news report was published by ABC News that says:

A Pakistani tribal militant group responsible for a series of deadly guerrilla raids inside Iran has been secretly encouraged and advised by American officials since 2005, U.S. and Pakistani intelligence sources tell ABC News.

The group, called Jundullah, is made up of members of the Baluchi tribe and operates out of the Baluchistan province in Pakistan, just across the border from Iran.

It has taken responsibility for the deaths and kidnappings of more than a dozen Iranian soldiers and officials.

U.S. officials say the U.S. relationship with Jundullah is arranged so that the U.S. provides no funding to the group, which would require an official presidential order or "finding" as well as congressional oversight.

Tribal sources tell ABC News that money for Jundullah is funneled to its youthful leader, Abd el Malik Regi, through Iranian exiles who have connections with European and Gulf states.

A short video clip about the same can be found here!

Just in case you could not see the clip, here is the transcript:

Gibson led the April 3 World News:

"Good evening. We have an exclusive report tonight on efforts to undermine the government of Iran. Efforts undertaken with the knowledge of the U.S. government. Our chief investigative correspondent, Brian Ross, has uncovered a U.S. intelligence connection to a militant group in Pakistan that is conducting raids across that country's border with Iran, raids that in some cases, have been deadly. The purpose of those attacks, to destabilize Iran. Brian is here, tonight, with details. Brian?"

Ross elaborated: "Charlie, U.S. and Pakistani sources tell ABC News that the U.S. has been secretly advising and encouraging a militant group that has carried out a series of guerrilla raids inside Iran, raids that have led to the deaths or capture of Iranian soldiers and officials. The group operates out of the Baluchistan province of Pakistan, just across the border from Iran. The group, made up of Baluchi tribesmen, has produced its own videos showing Iranian soldiers and border guards it says it has captured and brought back to Pakistan. U.S. government sources say the U.S. provides no direct funding of the group. But since 2005, has maintained ties to its youthful leader, this man, Abd el Malik Regi, who claims to have personally executed some of the Iranian captives."

Alexis Debat, ABC News consultant: "He used to fight with the Taliban. He's part drug smuggler, part Taliban, part Sunni activist."

Ross: "Alexis Debat, a senior fellow on counter-terrorism at the Nixon Center and an ABC News consultant, says tribal sources told him Regi and his group, called Jundullah, are getting money funneled through Iranian exiles who have connections to European and Gulf state countries."

Debat: "He is essentially commanding a force of several hundred guerilla fighters that stage attacks across the border into Iran on Iranian military officers, Iranian intelligence officers, kidnapping them, executing them on camera."

Ross: "Most recently, Jundullah took credit for an attack in February that killed at least eleven members of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards in the city of Zehedan. Last month, Iranian state television broadcast what it said were confessions by those responsible for that bus attack. They reportedly admitted to being members of Jundullah and said they had been trained for the mission at a secret location in Pakistan."

Debat: "This absolutely could not happen without the approval at the most senior level of the Pakistani government."

Ross: "In fact, Pakistani sources say the secret campaign against Iran was on the agenda when Vice President Cheney met with Pakistani President Musharaff in February. The only relationship with the group that the U.S. intelligence will admit to for the record, is seeking its help in tracking al Qaeda figures in that part of Pakistan. Other than that, U.S. officials say only they do not provide direct funding to the group to attack Iran. Charlie."

Gibson, at anchor desk with Ross: "But, Brian, could a small group like this actually have an effect in destabilizing the Iranian government?"

Ross: "There is a belief by U.S. officials, that this minority group, plus four or five other minority groups, if stirred up, could in fact destabilize and upset the Tehran central government, leading to a destabilization."

Gibson: "All right. Our chief investigative correspondent, Brian Ross. Brian will have more of his report later on Nightline."

Now, after you watched this short news clip (or read the transcript), let's keep the following in mind: "U.S. and Pakistani sources tell ABC News that the U.S. has been secretly advising and encouraging a militant group that has carried out a series of guerrilla raids inside Iran…
He used to fight with the Taliban. He's part drug smuggler, part Taliban, part Sunni activist…" Brian Ross said.

http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2007/0...ported-by-usa/

[Hewson]

Two things. Firstly, it's always a tiny minority who spark a revolt. Ask any republican Secondly, if anything the western media are underplaying the last two days' events.

Agreed. And I wonder why. I have friends in Tehran and Shiraz whom I meet regularly on holidays in Spain and it's clear from talking to them (none of them have an axe to grind politically) that Iran is still run by the Mullahs. I've been to Tehran and spoken (privately) to quite a few people who were happy to set the record straight, as they saw it. Ahmadinejad is a puppet figurehead and the strings are very firmly in the hands of the Islamic hardliners. Pretty much like our own dear isle in the 30s, 40s and 50s.

I have no doubt that this election has been rigged. The ordinary Iranian people have no truck with Islamic fundamentalism á la al Quaeda. They are a peace-loving, friendly people who look to the West in terms of their material well-being and are very independent-minded when it comes to their own religion.

And, surprisingly, there is widespread support for Israel there, too. Something I found difficult to comprehend.

[merle haggard]

[quote=Hewson;1777028]

Agreed. And I wonder why. I have friends in Tehran and Shiraz whom I meet regularly on holidays in Spain and it's clear from talking to them (none of them have an axe to grind politically) that Iran is still run by the Mullahs.

of course its still run by the mullahs . There was an islamic revolution in Iran a while back incase you didnt know . You do know what an Islamic revolution is actually about ? The people are the source of power in Iran . Its the mullahs who administer it . This is pretty much well known throughout the globe . But apparently a surprise to you .

I've been to Tehran and spoken (privately) to quite a few people who were happy to set the record straight, as they saw it. Ahmadinejad is a puppet figurehead and the strings are very firmly in the hands of the Islamic hardliners.

I think your a liar personally , and ill explain why at the end of the thread

Pretty much like our own dear isle in the 30s, 40s and 50s.

what in the name of sweet suffering feck are you on about here ? what is this ?

I have no doubt that this election has been rigged. The ordinary Iranian people have no truck with Islamic fundamentalism á la al Quaeda.

you are a tit . A complete tit . The governemnt not only rigged the election but had to because the Iranian people want nothing to do with al qaeda ?

The Iranian people are almost exlusively shia muslim , which makes them the mortal enemies of Al Qaeda . If Al qaeda possessed a nuclear bomb theyd drop it on Iran before washington . Iran has been attacked on numerous occasions over the last 30 years by al qaeda backed groups . Iranian pilgrims are regularly massacred by al qaeda when they travel to shia shrines in Iraq , shrines and cities are bombed in Iran . If you knew the remotest thing about Iran you would not make an absolutely idiotic comment like that . Therefore I believe your a liar and fantasist . I dont believe youve ever spoken to a single Iranian in your life .

They are a peace-loving, friendly people who look to the West in terms of their material well-being and are very independent-minded when it comes to their own religion.

their religion which happens to be shia

And, surprisingly, there is widespread support for Israel there, too. Something I found difficult to comprehend.

are you sure it was actually iran you went to ? and not the isle of man

[Hewson]

[quote=merle haggard;1777094

of course its still run by the mullahs . There was an islamic revolution in Iran a while back incase you didnt know . You do know what an Islamic revolution is actually about ? The people are the source of power in Iran . Its the mullahs who administer it . This is pretty much well known throughout the globe . But apparently a surprise to you .

I think your a liar personally , and ill explain why at the end of the thread

what in the name of sweet suffering feck are you on about here ? what is this ?

you are a tit . A complete tit . The governemnt not only rigged the election but had to because the Iranian people want nothing to do with al qaeda ?

The Iranian people are almost exlusively shia muslim , which makes them the mortal enemies of Al Qaeda . If Al qaeda possessed a nuclear bomb theyd drop it on Iran before washington . Iran has been attacked on numerous occasions over the last 30 years by al qaeda backed groups . Iranian pilgrims are regularly massacred by al qaeda when they travel to shia shrines in Iraq , shrines and cities are bombed in Iran . If you knew the remotest thing about Iran you would not make an absolutely idiotic comment like that . Therefore I believe your a liar and fantasist . I dont believe youve ever spoken to a single Iranian in your life .

are you sure it was actually iran you went to ? and not the isle of man[/quote]




Where's the Isle of Man?

Well, maybe the pilot wasn't good at instrument reading and that sign in the airport was a mis-print, so you could be right. Isle of Man. Hmmm.

I don't think I'm in need of a geography or history lesson, Merle. Especially since you've never ventured further than Bessbrook.

I've only been to Iran once but would love to return. The rest of my post stands and you can go back to your Star on Sunday supplement.

[pete2]

Two things. Firstly, it's always a tiny minority who spark a revolt. Ask any republican Secondly, if anything the western media are underplaying the last two days' events.

Not really, revolution is a popular act, without popular support, (as in this case or any other you care to mention including Ireland), it is stillborn. Certainly the previous revolution against the Shah was a popular act, which puts much of Hewsons garbage into perspective. A few emigres in Spain, and a few anonymous (likely invented) sources "inside the regime" do not a revolution make.

Rolling news concentration on the minor scuffles they have video of does not demonstrate "underplaying". To underplay events rolling news wouldn't be airing the same footage over and over, as it did with the Bagdad statue tear down. No, underplaying would be informing viewers that Mousavi had 14% in the polls going into the election but perhaps some in the west aren't prepared to hear that.

[oceanclub]

Not really, revolution is a popular act, without popular support, (as in this case or any other you care to mention including Ireland), it is stillborn.

Like the Easter Rising, you mean??

P.