Is this Mladic in 2008?

[Partizan]

At least some stuff that Serbs did, has been recorded and no need for anyone to discredit them. Just stick with the facts. They did it and you are trying to put a guilt on me ?????? No Western media, no spinning, it happened (unfortunately) and has been done by Serbs. Watch videos that SERBS made, not Western media but Scorpions by themselves. It is amazing that things that you do, you blame on others.

BTW Serbs are not evil but everyone should take responsibility for what they did, Bush, killers in all wars including WWI and WWII, Bosnians, Croats, Rwandans,... If Mr. Oric killed an innocent civilian he should be trialed, jailed and rot in hell.

You asked for links and I provided. Your accusations are hilarious, you support genocide, and then insist that everyone is against Serbs. Stop playing dumb but explain your need to minimize effects of people committing a genocide. Also Partizan is Serbian club, so maybe you took part in exterminations and now have a problem. You are an example of what they do - spread lies, and deny everything. I've presented links for people to see and decide.

Of all your rubbish can you prove few of your claims ? Now you prove that I'm part of "organised Bosnian government propaganda campaign".

Your accusations against me are laughable. Just because I question the timing current Bosnian government PR campaign against Serbia you then imply that I was a member of the Scorpions. Oh Holy Mother of God. Listen mate, I hate to disappoint you but I havnt a drop of Serbian blood in my veins and never fought in any militia or commando group.

Now lets get back to reality. There is no doubt that crimes were committed but they happend all sides and unless you acknowledge that you will never move on.

Now about your hero Oric -

Naser (Nasir) Oric - Srebrenica War Criminal - detailed list of his attacks on Christians

Naser Oric, war criminal

Crime and Punishment - by Nebojsa Malic

[Partizan]

Mujahedeen in Bosnia -

Tape suggests Bosnian general lied about mujahideen | Reuters

Bosnian mujahideen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ali Izetbetkovic and the true face of the Muslims/Mujahideen in Bosnia -from the SS to Srebrenica - Militant Islam Monitor - Militant Islam Monitor


A refelection on Bill Clinton
ITV - John Pilger - Good ol' Bill, the liberal hero

[IvoShandor]

Indeed. He has only set up his account here in the last few days for this thread. I wouldnt be surprised if he is part of a well organised Bosnian government propaganda campaign to discredit Serbia as Belgrade has put in its application to be included in the Schengen List and Sarajevo is rolling out its best media spin in a bid to scupper Serbia's bid for visa liberalisation. If the Serbs and Croats get on the white list, its bad news for Sarajevo. The timing of the Mladic video and the propaganda onslaught against Serbia makes this all very suspect.

Nirvana's stuff is more of the Serbs are evil crap that has been spun in the Western media for nearly 20 years. While no doubt crimes were committed, all sides in the Bosnian war, especialy the Muslims have their own skeletons in the closet, especially one Mr Oric.

No doubt crimes were committed on all sides. You admit it! But the fact is, and the evidence is clear, that the lions share of the atrocities were perpetrated by the minions of Milosevic and Karadzic and no amount of mouthing about Oric changes that fact. Coming out with that old "crimes were committed by all sides " is like saying that the Hutu and the Tutsis both committed crimes in Rwanda, so one side was as bad as the other...a distortion. Nirvana's posts show evidence of the crimes,so I suggest you stop your ranting and deal with it..if you can. It's your perverse denial that this was a crime at all that is farcical and is , as you say "re-opening old wounds"

"The current Serbian government bares no reponsibility for what happened in Bosnia in the 1990s. Its a bit like blaming the current German government for the crimes of the Nazis (whom the Bosnian Muslims collberated with btw)."

Bosnian Muslims did collaborate with the Germans,as did the Cetniks of Mihailovicz....btw

Regards,Pinko Neo-liberal Green

[Partizan]

No doubt crimes were committed on all sides. He admits it! But the fact is, and the evidence is clear, that the lions share of the atrocities were perpetrated by the minions of Miloslevic and Karadicsz and no amount of mouthing about Oric changes that fact. Coming out with that old "crimes were committed by all sides " is like saying that the Hutu and the Tutsis were equally to blame in Rwanda...a distortion.

Regards,Pinko Neo-liberal Green

Well you can start off by spelling Milosevic and Karadzic right

[nirvana]

@Partizan,
You use quite a sneaky strategy there - if I don't provide a proof I'm a lair but if I do, than I spread propaganda. In any case you pepper posts with the links unrelated to the topics and as soon as I find facts about one claim, you ignore it and move to something unrelated.

-Yes (as I said before) I agree, timing of video publication in my opinion is done on purpose, so what - facts still stay on

Find in all my posts where I claimed "Serbs are evil". Give me a quote - exactly my quote or stop posting lies. I gave you the links and now is your turn, if you are a man. As I said before, that statement (to generalize people) is a base of A.Hittler fascist ideology and he's anything but human. I despise all that sick philosophy and that is a reason that I don't agree with your Serb Support (SS) team. BTW Serbian Cetnics together with Ustasa and other Nazi collaborators are using that very same platform. Agree ?

Your answers are just pushing 2 things, so I'll address each of them :

[nirvana]

1-[COLOR="Purple"]Mujaheddin[/COLOR]
=============
-Quoting Daria Sito-Sucic and Nebojsa Malic Serbian single sided journos ? Are you serious ? Together with Militant Islam Monitor (WWII), please. Your only valid link is Wikipedia. There are plenty of links but why use the fishy ones ?

-Bush already milked 9/11 & Muslim terrorists excuse, please try to have original ideas
http://www.politics.ie/1774635-post885.html

-Did AlQuaida transported bodies to Serbia to be disposed into mass graves?

And this is from your Wiki link :

[COLOR="Blue"]"Although it is alleged that there were a number of mujaheddin units in the Bosnian government army (mostly by Serb and Croat propaganda as well some anti-Muslim Western authors and media outlets)[23], the ICTY found that there was just one unit called El Mujahid. It was established on August 13, 1993, by the Bosnian Army, which decided to form a unit of foreign fighters in order to impose control over them as the number of the foreign volunteers started to increase.[24]

Propaganda

According to Predrag Matvejevic, a notable Italian and Croatian modern prosaist who analyzed the situation, the number of Arab volunteers who came to help the Bosnian Muslims, was much smaller than the number presented by Serb and Croat propaganda".[/COLOR]

Conclusion :
a) They came 16 months after war has started
b) One unit established - not few millions of them
c) They were not controlled by the gvt (check ICTY judgments)

They can not be a reason to commit a genocide as they came 16 months AFTER the war has started (check the date), when Bosnians asked for weapons (due to embargo) but got few hundred of them instead (via Croatia). By that time Bosnians lost 75% of their territory so they made a mistake by letting them in the country. Serbs couldn't start the war to protect themselves against them, as VRS could not envisage that mujaheddin would come, therefore they can not be a reason for atrocities done by VRS. BTW huge percentage of Bosnian civilians was killed in first 18 months (please look it up).

[nirvana]

2-[COLOR="Purple"]Mr. Oric[/COLOR]
====
This came on google :

Oric Acquitted in Appeals Hearing

The appeals chamber of the Hague tribunal this week acquitted former Bosnian commander Naser Oric of crimes committed against Serbs in the Srebrenica area during the 1992-95 conflict. The ruling reversed a judgement delivered by the trial chamber in June 2006, sentencing Oric to two years in prison for failure to prevent murder and cruel treatment of Serb prisoners in Srebrenica between late 1992 and early 1993. He was convicted on the grounds that he failed to prevent crimes committed by individuals believed to belong to the military police, which was technically subordinate to him as local commander of Bosnian government forces.
------------------------------------------------
BiH prosecutor charges Naser Oric with extortion (SETimes.com)

16/11/2008

SARAJEVO, Bosnia and Herzegovina (BiH) -- The BiH's prosecutor's office has charged former Bosniak military commander Naser Oric with extortion and illegal possession of weapons and explosives, media reported on Friday (November 14th).
------------------------------------------------

-"[COLOR="Blue"]BTW Serbs are not evil but everyone should take responsibility for what they did, Bush, killers in all wars including WWI and WWII, Bosnians, Croats, Rwandans,... If Mr. Oric killed an innocent civilian he should be trialed, jailed and rot in hell.[/COLOR]" - my previous quote shows a stand I've got about this person

- Imagine that court could not find one single thing to pin on a muslim officer - If they could, he would be gone for quite a while. But he was acquitted and you are still claiming that he's war criminal ? BTW if you got some new facts about anyone, please help ICTY thus doing a favour to all of us.

- If proven guilty for extortion, should be punished to the full extent of the law and marked as a petty criminal by the Bosnian gvt.

-Was he active in Kosovo as well ? (Why mass killings and graves AGAIN) ?

-Are you saying that he's responsible for Serbs becoming genocidal ?

[Partizan]

well it looks as if the Bosnian PR machine didnt work. Serbia is on its way to Europe.

Tough titties mate.


B92 - News - Politics - Visas to be scrapped by end of year

[IvoShandor]

I'n all for them getting in....it will really piss off Seselj and co.

[nirvana]

No worries mate, no loss for me either.

If you honestly expected a different outcome than you haven't got it. Fear of Russians is way bigger than anything for the Europeans, at the moment.

I'm happy that your request for proofs made me research this and find a lot of facts on the net and youtube. Googling although time consuming provided me with overwhelming facts, fully debunked your lies and in fact made you speechless. You are not being able to dispute anything in my last 3 posts. The best bit is that most of the facts have being created by the Serbs themselves. And mass graves and genocide has nothing to do with the PR and business but truth although Karadzic is trying to play on the same card as you.

Reading Ivo's comments I can see he knows what he's talking about and your comeback line is about his spelling - very amusing.

You also said that the current Serbian gov. and their people has nothing to do with the war during 90' and that they moved on. I'll try to only discuss that lie and NOTHING else during last 2-10 years :

- Kostunica and his party ARE in the gvt.
"Prime Minister of Serbia, from 2004 to 2007 and from 2007 to 2008."
Vojislav Ko?tunica - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

- Milosevic's party IS part of the current Serbian gvt. (in coalition)
- Some officers of the Serbian military from 90' ARE still active
- Serbian people voted by 90% to give support to milosevic
---------------------------------------------------------
Milosevic re-elected Socialist Party leader. | Article from United Press International | HighBeam Research

BELGRADE, Yugoslavia, Nov. (UPI) -- Slobodan Milosevic was re-elected president of the Socialist Party of Serbia Sunday in a closed-door extraordinary party congress in Belgrade.

Senior party official Zivorad Igic told reporters outside the Sava Center conference hall the controversial leader, ousted from Yugoslavia's presidency earlier this year, won "with a convincing majority."

Igic said that Milosevic, the only candidate for president of the party, won 2,048 votes of the 2,226 delegates to the congress who cast their votes in a secret ballot. The congress was attended by 2,368 delegates.

- In 2000, so after genocide happened Serbian people still support his actions with 90% ?????????????? It is not just him.
--------------------------------------------------------
-supporting and hiding war criminals (Karadzic & Mladic) last 10 years, gave up Karadzic recently under pressure
-Even today Serbs support Ravna Gora movement.
-Why Serb gvt use battle 500 years ago as an excuse for Kosovo attrocities if they moved on ?

[COLOR="Purple"]Serbian Radical Party[/COLOR]
Serbian Radical Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
History

Foundation and early years

The party was formed in 1991 when the People's Radical Party (a party from the 1990s, not Nikola Pašic's People's Radical Party) and the Serbian Chetnik Movement merged. The Serbian Chetnik Movement was formed after a split in the Serbian Renewal Movement in 1990. It supports the Greater Serbian ideal and is said to claim Chetnik heritage. On 23 December 2007 the Party of Serbian Unity of the assassinated Željko Ražnatovic (alias "Arkan") merged into the SRS.

During the 1990-2000 period it was in and out of opposition, with the leader, Vojislav Šešelj, landing in jail in 1994. When in power, it was as a coalition partner with the Socialist Party of Serbia. During the war in Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina Šešelj was associated with the activities of Serbian paramilitary forces. The Yugoslav War Crimes Tribunal at the Hague indicted Šešelj, accusing him of war crimes. He surrendered to the ICTY in 2003 and has been on trial since November 2007.[8]

# 2008 presidential election: Tomislav Nikolic

* First round: 1,646,172 votes, [COLOR="Red"]39.99%[/COLOR]
* Second round: 2.197.155 votes, [COLOR="Red"]47.97%[/COLOR]

2008 parliamentary election: 1,219,436 votes, [COLOR="Red"]78 of 250 seats[/COLOR]
----------------------------------------------------------------
[COLOR="Purple"]Tomislav Nikolic[/COLOR]
Tomislav Nikoli? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All of them are still part of the gvt. and they lead people.