Chávez, Extending Control, Seizes Assets of Oil Contractors

[Thac0man]

How can a dictator be democratically elected and put himself up for re-election? What kind of dictator abides by the results of plebiscites that go against him? What a pile of right-wing sh1te.

With respect, the democratic process that got Chavez elected is on the same as the one used to keep him in power. Now Chavez opponents maintained a system that got him elected, yet are accused of being undemocratic?

How can an election be deemed free and fair when opposition members are banned from running by a Chavez appointee, without those opposition politicians being charged or formally investigated at the time? Hardly democratic behaviour and certainly not free.

Therefore the last elections in Venezuela were not free and as they were not fair. And post election those regions that did not vote for Chavez backed candidates have had the army come in and take over resources.

[merle haggard]

[quote=Thac0man;1640243]

With respect, the democratic process that got Chavez elected is on the same as the one used to keep him in power. Now Chavez opponents maintained a system that got him elected, yet are accused of being undemocratic?

well yeah , if you enage in coups , hire colombian paramilitaries and refuse to accept the results of elections people will probably call you a wee bit undemocratic

How can an election be deemed free and fair when opposition members are banned from running by a Chavez appointee, without those opposition politicians being charged or formally investigated at the time? Hardly democratic behaviour and certainly not free.

the fact people wanted on large scale corruption charges have legged it and gone on the run rather than face questioning makes it a little difficult to either charge or convict them

Therefore the last elections in Venezuela were not free and as they were not fair. And post election those regions that did not vote for Chavez backed candidates have had the army come in and take over resources.

well , yeah , the resources are the property of the venezuelan nation . Who else should control them ? I fail to see the basis for your complaint . Furthermore the soldiers involved arent even armed . Why did you omit pointing that out ?

The elections were perfectly free and fair . Its unfortunate you have a problem with the fact people wanted for major corruption arent permitted to stand for election , but thats your problem .

[Thac0man]

the fact people wanted on large scale corruption charges have legged it and gone on the run rather than face questioning makes it a little difficult to either charge or convict them

Actually thats one person and those banned were banned months ago, before the election, nothing to do with the investigation that has been launhed since the election which delivered opposition make gains. Which is perhaps the reason for the investigation. his crime it would seem was winning over a Chavez candidate.

[merle haggard]

Actually thats one person and those banned were banned months ago, before the election, nothing to do with the investigation that has been launhed since the election which delivered opposition make gains. Which is perhaps the reason for the investigation. his crime it would seem was winning over a Chavez candidate.

no it seems his crime was actually fraud and corruption . But ive little doubt youll claim he was as inncoent as that last guy you defended in latin america against evil communist plots to discredit him . Wotsisname , Dwyer ..or was it Flores ?
the holidaymaker and the investigative journalist wasnt it ?

[Thac0man]

no it seems his crime was actually fraud and corruption . But ive little doubt youll claim he was as inncoent as that last guy you defended in latin america against evil communist plots to discredit him . Wotsisname , Dwyer ..or was it Flores ?
the holidaymaker and the investigative journalist wasnt it ?

You are referring to an allegation, not a crime. Or has the presumtion of innocence disappeared along with the right to dissent?

[merle haggard]

You are referring to an allegation, not a crime. Or has the presumtion of innocence disappeared along with the right to dissent?

a proven allegation . Im not obliged to give any proven fascist mercenary who peronally pointed out what he was up to any presumption of innocence . He and his crew are as guilty as they are dead .
how many people are in jail in venezuela for dissent ? when was this law banning dissent passed ? have you informed anyone else about this banning of dissent in Venezuela ? The world seems to be unaware

[toxic avenger]

With respect, the democratic process that got Chavez elected is on the same as the one used to keep him in power. Now Chavez opponents maintained a system that got him elected, yet are accused of being undemocratic?

How can an election be deemed free and fair when opposition members are banned from running by a Chavez appointee, without those opposition politicians being charged or formally investigated at the time? Hardly democratic behaviour and certainly not free.

Therefore the last elections in Venezuela were not free and as they were not fair. And post election those regions that did not vote for Chavez backed candidates have had the army come in and take over resources.

Do you recognise any merit in what Chavez has done for the impoverished majority? Or is he the devil incarnate? And do you not see anything remotely remotely unpleasant about the main opposition figures?

[cHeal]

No, in Thac's world if a government doesn't operate at the behest of the corporate lobbiest, it is insanely undemocratic, it's how his perspective operates. Interestingly in his attempt to dislike Chavez apologists, or rather people who aren't racing to call him a dictator at every given opportunity he only serves to show up his own hypocrisy. How often have we ever actually seen Thac, Clanny or any of that prattish group shout down from on high the terrible, anti-democratic things which have occurred in the US? Torture? Ticking time bomb. Surveillance? Nothing to hide, nothing to fear. Illegal invasions? Terrorists, blah blah blah. He is just as quick to run to the defense of the US, as his equally stupid compatriates on the other side of the aisle run to defend Chavez. Of course with Obama in there now torture, surveillance and infringements on free speech are suddenly all bad again.

Thac comes across with his holier than thou, big university professor tone but he is actually no different to Clanny or that insuffereable ass twtone, he just picks his fight a little better. They produce the same effect as watching Fox News for 20 years.

[FamilyGuy]

No, in Thac's world if a government doesn't operate at the behest of the corporate lobbiest, it is insanely undemocratic, it's how his perspective operates. Interestingly in his attempt to dislike Chavez apologists, or rather people who aren't racing to call him a dictator at every given opportunity he only serves to show up his own hypocrisy. How often have we ever actually seen Thac, Clanny or any of that prattish group shout down from on high the terrible, anti-democratic things which have occurred in the US? Torture? Ticking time bomb. Surveillance? Nothing to hide, nothing to fear. Illegal invasions? Terrorists, blah blah blah. He is just as quick to run to the defense of the US, as his equally stupid compatriates on the other side of the aisle run to defend Chavez. Of course with Obama in there now torture, surveillance and infringements on free speech are suddenly all bad again.

Thac comes across with his holier than thou, big university professor tone but he is actually no different to Clanny or that insuffereable ass twtone, he just picks his fight a little better. They produce the same effect as watching Fox News for 20 years.

ThacOman is just a hypocrite. He pretends to be all concerned about human rights and democracy when his real problme with Chavez or other leftists is precisely because they are leftist and arent stooges of the US. He has no more interest in democracy, human rights or freedom than the likes of Pinochet had.

This is a guy who supports a regime responsible for one of the worst human rights records in the world - Colombia. They routinely intimidate, arbitarily detain, kidnap, torture and murder, directly and incollusion with the right wing paramilitaries, their political opponents, trade unionists, human rights activists or indeed anyone who dares to criticise their appalling human rights record.

He also supports banning media and political parties. The fact that he was an admirer and associate of a suspected war criminal and terrorist who was engaged in an attempt to destabilize the democratically elected government of Bolivia just hsows the contempt this guy has for freedom, human rights and democracy

[pete2]

Too funny. Thac0man, Clanrickard are a problem because they call a dictator a dictator.

Meanwhile there is no problem with Chavez paling around with an Iranian holocaust denier who executes homosexuals, or Chavez fostering defense and energy pacts with the human rights nightmare regimes of PRC & Russia.

Nor doesn't matter that Chavez wants to squander the wealth of Venezuela on Russian nuclear submarines, has a bodyguard provided by Chinese special forces, or has waged economic warfare (threatening an oil cutoff) on his neighbors.