Chávez, Extending Control, Seizes Assets of Oil Contractors

[CookieMonster]

Ah yes, being f*cked over with free education, free healthcare, and a chance to rise beyond the barrio gutter. The sheer horror of it....

Oh it's nice now, but when the whole thing comes crashing down around their ears, and it will as they are effectively being bought with their own money at a price they can't afford, who will come to help when Chavez is off living in exile is some beach resort in Buenos Aires? It won't be los Americanos, for sure.

[cHeal]

From Dictator of the month:

On 11 April 2002, chaos erupted in Venezuela, with huge protests of over half a million people organized demanding the immediate resignation Chávez. Chávez ordered the military to control the riots instead of the police "Plan Avila", possibly with orders to fire upon the protesters; the military refused to carry out Plan Avila, forcing Chávez to leave the capitol and resign, which was announced on 12 April 2002. A vacuum of power ensued and Pedro Carmona was placed in power; however due to missteps even in his first day of power, many who had supported the removal of Chávez now refused to back Carmona, forcing his resignation and the restoration of Chávez to power.

They appear to have left out a few important details :P

Chavez is NOT a dictator, however the fact he has being elected to power is of no consequnce when determining this. Chavez still appears to be acting quite within his remit as President, but the extra powers he and the legislature has granted the office of president is worrying, but describing him as a dictator is still wrong. He has not disregarded any free and fair elections or votes, he has not attempted to harrass the electorate when voting and as yet there is little evidence of any major oppression in the country.

The power he does exert does have to be taken within the context of what the country faces. It is, without doubt being infiltrated by US agents, it is inconprehensible to think the CIA is not involved in some activity in Venezuela thus the laws need to be more stringent than what we have in Europe. Just as the US has the criminally unconstitutional Patriot act so to does Venezuela have it's skeletons in the closet but we do not consider the US a dictatorship?

Personally I have no issue with him nationalizing oil assets and other industry linked to natural resources within the borders of the country, I also think some of his land reforms were correct but I do not agree with the nationalisation of Telecommunication companies and the like. Such activity is both counter productive and perhaps demonstrates a will for Chavez to dip his fingers in too many pots.

He's not killing people indiscriminately on the street yet so he's pretty okay by me, but the sooner he is replaced (preferably by a more moderate but like minded fellow) the better.

[pete2]

Venezuela ousts EU politician for insulting Chavez - CNN.com
Obama Among the Dictators - WSJ.com
GoErie.com: Chavez is dictator

[FamilyGuy]

I'm sure Mugabe promised his supporters all the same would arise from his land acquisition programme A dictator is a dictator, left or right.

Quite true, however Chavez is quite clearly not a dictator as anyone with even half a brain would know

[cactusflower]

pete2 - just out of curiosity - do you think of Gordon Brown, leader of a "soft totalitarian state" (good description), as a dictator ?

[Ecoguy]

Chavez is a democratically elected leader who has used his countries natural resources to dramatically improve the lot of the poor underclass. All this in the face of constant American/CIA interference, much of it coming from Americas crack stooges in Columbia. He's even provided free heating oil to poor people in Uncle Sam FFS!!

Oh yeah a real nasty dictator all right!!,

How about the bunch of crooks running(ruining more like) this country with their dirty little corrupt deals in giving away our oil and gas to scumbag multinationals like Shell

[pete2]

pete2 - just out of curiosity - do you think of Gordon Brown, leader of a "soft totalitarian state" (good description), as a dictator ?

I don't respect political leaders without question, experience tells me they are corrupt by nature. You just need look at the corrupt EU regime to know that.

You have asked a hard question. Some of the things Chavez has done, from trying to extend his time in office, to silencing and imprisoning political dissenters, to rampant nationalization of private enterprise do speak to his evil dictatorial intent. He is consolidating his power through every aspect of society. Most political regimes contend with threats and their agenda by these methods, but Chavez also heavily relies on the cult of the leader.

A poster by the ID of 'merle haggard' might be best equipped to speak on the subject of Browns career and record in britain. The post I made on britain being a "soft totalitarian state" is about a creep towards a surveillance, thought crime, state. It is not unthinkable that the same exists in venezuala alongside the cult of the leader Chavez relies on.

[cHeal]

First of all, nice dodge, you avoided that question expertly.

to rampant nationalization of private enterprise do speak to his evil dictatorial intent.

First of all you halfwit, the word 'evil' has no place in any intelligent debate, second of all, leaders such as Chavez, planning on the reform and re-distribution of wealth will always nationalize some private enterprize, it demonstrates nothing except the fact they are following a socialist doctrine.

Ireland, Britain and the US have all nationalized private banking institutions in the past couple of years, are we all heading for "evil" dictatorships? No? Oh why ever not? Oh right because those nationalizations were for the benefit of private enterprize, ah I see, so Chavez is doing it all backwards. You should go tell him.

And thridly, he could make a great dictator, who knows, but he is not a dictator YET. HE does not have supreme executive power, he has not declared himself president for life and he has not disrespected the votes of his people. It is a complete untruth that he is a dictator, completely untrue.

You are a shill.

[Thac0man]

First of all you halfwit, the word 'evil' has no place in any intelligent debate, second of all, leaders such as Chavez, planning on the reform and re-distribution of wealth will always nationalize some private enterprize, it demonstrates nothing except the fact they are following a socialist doctrine.

The question is whether he is doing it properly or not. Arguments about idoilogy should not scupper discussion about the effects or real causes of whats happening.

Is the recent 20% raise in minimum wage voluntary or something the Chavez government has to do after its awarding of a simular rise to all government employees late last year? That was a response to 26% inflation in 2008, which would only serve to fuel inflation and now it seems must result in a 20% increase in the minimum wage to yet again match inflation. ... which will further fuel inflation.

*bare in mind that Venzuelas soaring inflation was pre-global credit crunch crises.

Where does that end? Lower production also fuels inflation and mass nationalisation is simply making things worse. Nationalisation of some sectors is perhaps a desirable thing. But it is a ludicrus concept to nationalise everything the people need because the capacity for successful nationalistion does not exist - as is being demonstrated by falling production and output from state sectors already nationlaised accross the board.

As for the Chavez regime ( I would say government by it seems to be becoming a one man show), claims it is democratic only hold true if we take democratic to mean "majority rule". Democracy as we understand it is representitive democracy. Any democratic government is elected to represent the interests of all of the electorate, not just those who voted for the government. What we are seeing is African style winner-take-all democracy, that even that benighted continent is leaving behind.

Chavez has moved, time and again, to punish regions that have not voted for him, and that is a politically motivated abuse of power - regardless of the alignment of the government doing it.

There are two possibile outcomes to Chavez adventure if he is to remain "democratic". One, the state eventually has to sell state assets back into private hands at a fraction of their worth in order to get them producing. Two, Chavez loses power and the powers he has amassed are awarded to someone far less lenient than he ("apparently" is).

In the end the private sector can only be plundered so far, it is a finite resource when it is not growing or allowed to grow. At the moment the Chavez government is robbing Peter to pay Paul. It is creating nothing new, just hoovering up assets to shore up it failing economic policies. Foreign investment in venezuela has already dried up, to a paulty $500 million last year, less than any of its near and smaller neighbours. Add to that the fact that little or no money is being made in Venezuela and you have the making of an economy heading for a brick wall.

The cost of producing oil in Venezuela is set to soar, further cutting into the already falling profits of the national oil company, the governments main source of income. And every associated or vital industry outside of that will reply on handouts from the oil revenue to keep them afloat.

In short zero growth and rising inflation. Hardly a recipe for success or indeed a nation without widespread poverty.

[pete2]

First of all, nice dodge, you avoided that question expertly.



First of all you halfwit, the word 'evil' has no place in any intelligent debate, second of all, leaders such as Chavez, planning on the reform and re-distribution of wealth will always nationalize some private enterprize, it demonstrates nothing except the fact they are following a socialist doctrine.

Ireland, Britain and the US have all nationalized private banking institutions in the past couple of years, are we all heading for "evil" dictatorships? No? Oh why ever not? Oh right because those nationalizations were for the benefit of private enterprize, ah I see, so Chavez is doing it all backwards. You should go tell him.

And thridly, he could make a great dictator, who knows, but he is not a dictator YET. HE does not have supreme executive power, he has not declared himself president for life and he has not disrespected the votes of his people. It is a complete untruth that he is a dictator, completely untrue.

You are a shill.

lmao, what will it take for the penny to drop?

It appears we need to see reports of Chavez boiling political opponents in oil like the dictator of Uzbekistan before his cheerleaders accept reality. Some don't want to see the glaring signs that Chavez is a bad'un.