France scraps controversial youth job law

[owenfeehan]

Would the French think that the Irish UDA (unfortunate acronym!) offers an inferior level of employee protection to that which currently exists in France? Surely in France it is legal to make employees redundant during an economic downturn?

It's nothing to do with economic downturns when jobs must go. It's to do with arbtirary dismissal for young people without them being able to realistically challenge an unfair dismissal in court. That is what De Villepin wanted to sanction for 2 years for young people, instead of the existing 6 months (afaik, my knowledge of french labour law is dodgy).

No economy can protect against companies failing and needing to make redundancies, and France is no different. Although there is a lot that can be done to ensure that these situations are handled in a fair and reasonable and humane manner.

[DSCH]

Would the French think that the Irish UDA (unfortunate acronym!) offers an inferior level of employee protection to that which currently exists in France? Surely in France it is legal to make employees redundant during an economic downturn?

It's nothing to do with economic downturns when jobs must go. It's to do with arbtirary dismissal without needing to give a reason. That is what De Villepin wanted to sanction for 2 years for young people, instead of the existing months.

No economy can protect against companies failing and needing to make redundancies, and France is no different. Although there is a lot that can be done to ensure that these situations are handled in a fair and reasonable and humane manner.

I'm missing the point here!

In France is it possible to make workers redundant during a downturn, for incompetence or improper behaviour, as is currently the case in Ireland (provided due process is followed). For if these situations already exist under French law, then surely the proposed labour law is superflous?

[owenfeehan]

Would the French think that the Irish UDA (unfortunate acronym!) offers an inferior level of employee protection to that which currently exists in France? Surely in France it is legal to make employees redundant during an economic downturn?

It's nothing to do with economic downturns when jobs must go. It's to do with arbtirary dismissal without needing to give a reason. That is what De Villepin wanted to sanction for 2 years for young people, instead of the existing months.

No economy can protect against companies failing and needing to make redundancies, and France is no different. Although there is a lot that can be done to ensure that these situations are handled in a fair and reasonable and humane manner.

I'm missing the point here!

In France is it possible to make workers redundant during a downturn, for incompetence or improper behaviour, as is currently the case in Ireland (provided due process is followed). For if these situations already exist under French law, then surely the proposed labour law is superflous?

Yes, it is superfluous.

Employers don't like having to prove incompetnence or improper behaviour as it involves collectiving evidence and possibly going through legal processes.

There's also inevitably always a gray area as to what defines doing your job adequately and doing it at the best of one's ability. Rather than using bonuses, potential pay increases and promotional opportunities etc. to entice workers to work harder, many employers prefer having the threat of firing and replacing a worker constantly on their side, but fortunately the law offers some protection against such an intimidating workplace.

The idea of the French Contrat Première Embauche was that if employers could fire young workers more easily, then they would want to hire more young people instead of older people (who would have more legal rights).

It's a terrible idea though, using lesser rights as an incentive to entice companies to hire particular groups of workers. Workers are people with families and social lives whose welfare deserves to be taken into consideration, and not just delegated always to the whims of their bosses.

The law became known as the "Kleenex contract" because it would have been so easy to discard workers like tissue.

Loads of information at Wikipedia

[owenfeehan]

Sorry I'm not sure if it was previously 6 months or 3 months. Wikipedia seems to think 3 months.

[DSCH]

Sorry I'm not sure if it was previously 6 months or 3 months. Wikipedia seems to think 3 months.

Maybe we need to start a campaign to bring French employee protection up to Irish levels!

[owenfeehan]

Sorry I'm not sure if it was previously 6 months or 3 months. Wikipedia seems to think 3 months.

Maybe we need to start a campaign to bring French employee protection up to Irish levels!

Well in general they have much better employee protection, but this proposed law would have made them worse than Ireland in this particular area.

But it probably should be noted that a huge amount of Ireland's employee legislation was implemented due to directives from the European Union, and prior to this we had sfa employee protection.

There is a very weak tradition in Ireland of fighting for workers rights (protection from unfair dismissal, fair and safe working environment, redundancy pay etc.) largely deriving from low levels of trade union participation and the lack of a electoral success for centre-left parties - although both realities are probably very much connected.

[DSCH]

There is a very weak tradition in Ireland of fighting for workers rights (protection from unfair dismissal, fair and safe working environment, redundancy pay etc.) largely deriving from low levels of trade union participation and the lack of a electoral success for centre-left parties - although both realities are probably very much connected.

Which explains why the most pampered workers in Ireland have always been the most militant! This is the same elsewhere, though I thought that actual union membership in France was very low by european standards. It seems that for french people, going on a march beneath a red banner and waving one's fist in the air helps to satisfy some emotional / psychological need!