Dutch documentary on the influence of the Jewish-Israeli Lobby in the US

[yanshuf]

seanciaran:

Palestinians living in Israel (so called 1948 arabs) are granted citizenship but not allowed to join the israeli army and are confined to one section of Jeruselam. Palestinians living close to israeli settlements are frequently denied access to their place of work or residence because of their ethnicity. There are numerous videos (for example on UTube) where Settlers and israeli military are seen stealing Palestinian land, where jews take over Palestinian homes etc. 1.5 million Palestinians have been displaced and live in other countries specifically to make space for the jews. Current zionist policy is that the displaced Palestinians will not be allowed to return to their homeland under any circumstances, even if a settlement is reached. Israel continues to build new settlements on Palestinian land against the wishes of the palestinians and despite the suffering it causes for indigenous people. Finally, the current zionist foreign minister (a guy called Lieberman who was born in Moldova as were his ancestors) has demanded that all israeli arabs sign an oath of loyalty to the zionist state or else be tossed out of the 'country'. In other words, either support zionism and continued expansion etc or get out. I could go on, but if ya haven't got it so far, you are either pig stupid or a pro zionist fascist.

South Africa's (former) apartheid state pales into insignificance when compared with jewish apartheid

You mixed some left-leaning myths with Aarab based propaganda.

It's a very strange "apartheid" that Israel applied against its Arabs, as that same population exceeds most of the Arab populations in the neighbouring countries and in many European countries.

It's an apartheid that permits that Arab population to identify with enemies and factors that call for the destruction of Israel.

There are gaps between the Jewish population and the Arab population, but this gap emanates not from mere discrimination (there still is a discrimination) but mainly from their being an oppressive society:

They subjugate women and oppress anyone that is not in line with their attitude.

That's how it is in the Arab Muslim population in Israel and that's how it is in the Arab Muslim societies in the Arab regimes surrounding Israel.

As for Judea and Samaria, it's part of the Jewish land, and as soon as the Aarabs stop their terror (if they do that in the future) there wouldn't be any need for preemptive measures, such as checkpoints and the stuff.

As for the stealing complaints, they are baseless as this is Jewish land, stolen centuries ago by the Muslims, and as the Jews never gave up on their right of this land, it was never Arab. But as they live there, Jews don't live amongst them (except for holy places, like Hebron). The settlements are more legal than Gibraltar, Ceuta or Melilla or even Australia for that case.

I would next time double check before posting misleading information, you numb-brain leftist.

[L'Chaim]

Rubbish. Zionist Israel gets its knickers in a knot when ever it is pointed out that it is expected to abide by international and moral norms - that murdering and robbing Palestinians is criminal. The shrill accusation of 'Jew hatred' is just deliberate emotional blackmail. The point of this thread is the extraordinary influece of the US Zionist lobby. Judt makes the interesting point that unlike all other 'ethnic' Americans (Irish-Americans, Polish-Americans, Black-Americans), the situation with Jewish people has been made different. The emotional fallout from the Nazi holocaust of the last century has been deployed to create a different identity and sense of moral obligation to the notion of a religious 'homeland' to which Jewish people all over the world have automatic citizenship. Imagine if Italy were to declare the same thing were true for all Catholics. It's a poppycock idea of course.

Face it, Jewish people are no nicer or 'worser' than the rest of us. It is not an outrage to point out their crimes like we would anyone else's. Even Perle admits in the documentary that it would be impossible for any Senatorial or Presidential candidate to succeed in an election in the US if he or she were to make such observations in public. This is in a country where Muslim-hating has been elevated to a form of patriotic duty. Again, look at the documentary - the facts speak for themselves. Even Jewish people who speak out are labelled as 'self haters'.

L'Chaim is him or herself a text-book example of the 'protect the Zionist project regardless' lobby. He appears on this website only and ever in the context of the topic of Israel.

Yes I did notice this comment in the video that said that Jewish identity and Jewsih support had something to do with the Holocaust. That's a very simple view. Jewish influence in America goes all the way back to Columbus, when numerous Jews were involved in that expedition, either as financiers and members of the crew. As a matter of fact, the first member of Columbus' crew to set foot in America was a Jew and he was actually the first white man to settle in the land Columbus discovered. So a Jew was the first landowner and farmer ever to settle in what was known then as 'the new world'. At that time Jews were being expelled from countries in Europe and quite a lot of them made their way to America, where Jews were able to have more religious freedom than they ever had.

The thing is Jews were at the receiving end of some dreadful treatment at the hands of rulers and governments in Europe and Russia. Sometimes they had friends in high places but their treatment depended on the whims of these rulers and governments. And then kings and governments changed or even changed their minds. So Jews were never safe or could never depend on protection from any of the rulers or governments anywhere in Europe or Russia. Only America was different....and hugely different. Throughout the history of America the leaders were always warm to Jews. America's commitment to Jewish aspirations goes way back to the founding of the country, and, going back to George Washington, presidents have all shown their understanding of the need for a Jewish homeland. So this support in America goes way back before the Holocaust. It's not just because Israeli lobby groups are strong or more vocal than any other lobby group. It's because support for Jews is widespread in America and has been since the founding of the country.

[Breadan O'Connor]

Armenians brought a genocide motion to the floor in congress despite Turkey being a key ally of the US thanks to aggressive lobbying.

The Jewish ADL lobbied hard against that congress resolution and as far as I know it was not passed. One local ADL leader was fired because he supported Armenian genocide recognition.

So that in itself is another demonstation of the power of the Jewish lobby.

[Sam Lord]

The most comprehensive study of the Israel Lobby in the US is:


The Israel Lobby
by
John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt


Well worth a read.

[blacbloc]

Yes I did notice this comment in the video that said that Jewish identity and Jewsih support had something to do with the Holocaust. That's a very simple view. Jewish influence in America goes all the way back to Columbus, when numerous Jews were involved in that expedition, either as financiers and members of the crew. As a matter of fact, the first member of Columbus' crew to set foot in America was a Jew and he was actually the first white man to settle in the land Columbus discovered. So a Jew was the first landowner and farmer ever to settle in what was known then as 'the new world'. At that time Jews were being expelled from countries in Europe and quite a lot of them made their way to America, where Jews were able to have more religious freedom than they ever had.

The thing is Jews were at the receiving end of some dreadful treatment at the hands of rulers and governments in Europe and Russia. Sometimes they had friends in high places but their treatment depended on the whims of these rulers and governments. And then kings and governments changed or even changed their minds. So Jews were never safe or could never depend on protection from any of the rulers or governments anywhere in Europe or Russia. Only America was different....and hugely different. Throughout the history of America the leaders were always warm to Jews. America's commitment to Jewish aspirations goes way back to the founding of the country, and, going back to George Washington, presidents have all shown their understanding of the need for a Jewish homeland. So this support in America goes way back before the Holocaust. It's not just because Israeli lobby groups are strong or more vocal than any other lobby group. It's because support for Jews is widespread in America and has been since the founding of the country.

~Again, utter rubbish! Jewish people were horribly discriminated against in America. It's well documented -refused entry to hotels and in restaurants etc etc etc. Your spinning a complete fantasy here. The rise of an immensely wealthy Jewish Zionist lobby is the reason the US has discovered its 'friendship' for the Zionist project known as Israel - a convenient location and camouflage for its century-old oil and gas objectives in the Middle East. The US is nobody's 'firend'. When/if it secures its interests in the region, Israel will be dropped like a hot potato - just as Saddam Hussein was and probably 'discovered' to be just as evil.

[yanshuf]

blacbloc:

~Again, utter rubbish! Jewish people were horribly discriminated against in America. It's well documented -refused entry to hotels and in restaurants etc etc etc. Your spinning a complete fantasy here. The rise of an immensely wealthy Jewish Zionist lobby is the reason the US has discovered its 'friendship' for the Zionist project known as Israel - a convenient location and camouflage for its century-old oil and gas objectives in the Middle East. The US is nobody's 'firend'. When/if it secures its interests in the region, Israel will be dropped like a hot potato - just as Saddam Hussein was and probably 'discovered' to be just as evil.

Talking about rubbish, do you even know when the zionist-American connection started?

It was american christian initiation, not Jewish, and it started more than a hundred years ago, much before Israel's foundation.

[Defeated Romanticist]

Look around a million Jews were thrown out of the arab world in the years around 1948. They have to go somewhere. Even if one counts habitable land only the Jews are more than entitled to a homeland based on their percentage of the region alone in Israel.

One of the greatest achievements of that corrupt little weed Yassar Arafat was to swindle the world into believing that this was a confrontation between big bad Israelis and helpless Palestinians. It isn't and never was. It's big bad Arabs and plucky little Israel but this fit in well with traditional European antisemitism which one need only scratch the surface to find. It's quite amazing what the Israelis done with that tiny parcel of land.

[L'Chaim]

~Again, utter rubbish! Jewish people were horribly discriminated against in America. It's well documented -refused entry to hotels and in restaurants etc etc etc. Your spinning a complete fantasy here. The rise of an immensely wealthy Jewish Zionist lobby is the reason the US has discovered its 'friendship' for the Zionist project known as Israel - a convenient location and camouflage for its century-old oil and gas objectives in the Middle East. The US is nobody's 'firend'. When/if it secures its interests in the region, Israel will be dropped like a hot potato - just as Saddam Hussein was and probably 'discovered' to be just as evil.

"Horribly discriminated against in America"? And you give examples of refused entry to hotels and restaurants? That type of discrimination is a walk in the park to what Jews faced in Europe and Russia where pogroms and expulsions were the norm. America was always warm towards the Jews and their support for Jews and their support for a Jewish homeland goes back to the founding of America.

[seanciaran]

[quote=yanshuf;1572697]seanciaran:You mixed some left-leaning myths with Aarab based propaganda."

Can ya be a bit specific, as in some examples of the "myths" and "propoganda" you refer to?

"It's a very strange "apartheid" that Israel applied against its Arabs, as that same population exceeds most of the Arab populations in the neighbouring countries and in many European countries."

Apartheid" means seperateness, and certainly applies to the zionist state where the indigenous people are not allowed to live in areas specifically designated as jewish. There are several other examples, but the one I gave is sufficient.

"It's an apartheid that permits that Arab population to identify with enemies and factors that call for the destruction of Israel.
Those Arabs who currently reside within the ever expanding israeli borders are subjected to discrimination and terror by the jews."

Oh, and is it any wonder that the Palestinians might be a tad pissed off, given that most of their land was stolen by jewish foreigners, that zionists frequently murder Palestinian civilians (even today a Palestinian was murdered by an israeli soldier during a peaceful protest in the west bank), that family members and compatriots of the 1948 arabs were banished from israel and now live in squalid refugee camps...all to make way for the jew fascists.

"There are gaps between the Jewish population and the Arab population, but this gap emanates not from mere discrimination (there still is a discrimination) but mainly from their being an oppressive society:"

I dunno what yer on about here, do you?

"They subjugate women and oppress anyone that is not in line with their attitude."

Oppression is israel's forte, and as for subjugation of women, we are not talking about the Taliban. The Palestinian women I see on TV are usually wailing at funerals of their loved ones, men, women and children slaughtered by jews.

"That's how it is in the Arab Muslim population in Israel and that's how it is in the Arab Muslim societies in the Arab regimes surrounding Israel."

Let's focus on the issue, id est jewish fascism and the power of the israeli lobby.

"As for Judea and Samaria, it's part of the Jewish land, and as soon as the Aarabs stop their terror (if they do that in the future) there wouldn't be any need for preemptive measures, such as checkpoints and the stuff."

Who said ' Judea and Samaria' belong to jews? Oh yeah, god said so in the bible...ya twat.

"As for the stealing complaints, they are baseless as this is Jewish land, stolen centuries ago by the Muslims, and as the Jews never gave up on their right of this land, it was never Arab. But as they live there, Jews don't live amongst them (except for holy places, like Hebron). The settlements are more legal than Gibraltar, Ceuta or Melilla or even Australia for that case.
I refer you to your last sentence, where again you are incorrect."

According to international law, the settlements are ILLEGAL.
I would next time double check before posting misleading information, you numb-brain leftist.

I rest my case.[/

[yanshuf]

Can ya be a bit specific, as in some examples of the "myths" and "propoganda" you refer to?

"Israel is an apartheid state" is one of those left-leaning myths.

And as I said, it's a strange apartheid, where Aarabs are much more free than in Arab states, under the "open" Muslim regimes.

Oppression is israel's forte, and as for subjugation of women, we are not talking about the Taliban. The Palestinian women I see on TV are usually wailing at funerals of their loved ones, men, women and children slaughtered by jews.

You are so shallow: "The Palestinian women I see on TV are..."???

Oppressive Islam is what makes them so miserable, not Israel. The women know they must obey the code of behaviour, according to which freedon is a Western concept.

If they look for freedom they find it in Tel-Aviv and Haifa, not in Umm El-Fahem or Sakhnin.

If Israel hadn't existed, they would have been battling amongst themselves, in tribal wars right now.

If there's any apartheid it's in your twisted head, seanciaran. You are looking for half truths as facts.

The Arabs in Israel, if they hated so much the Israeli "Apartheid" regime, could go to the better European countries, where they know Muslims are at the bottom of achievments in the list of immigrants, unlike the Indians and Chinese.

Who said ' Judea and Samaria' belong to jews? Oh yeah, god said so in the bible...ya twat.

No, not god, but the League of Nations. And again I would advise you to stop posting on issues you learn about from TV reports.

According to international law, the settlements are ILLEGAL.

No, they are not. They are perfectly legal, though it doesn't get along with your leftist anti-zionist line.

I rest my case

You rest your case and your brain.