Irish 'involved' in Bolivia 'assassination attempt'

[toxic avenger]

Dwyer was a member of the Willie O'Dea fan club! There is the extreme and dodgy political affiliation... Joking...

Shot Irishman accused of plot on Bolivian president - Times Online

Family friends saying he was out there with his company but then saying he was told to stay there and get a job because of the recession here, leading him to the private security business. So what happened to the job that brought him out there?

[5intheface]

Possibly...so shall we all agree to henceforth draw a line and stick to the facts of the case and not repeat politicised fiction being masqueraded as fact?

That's the best definition of 'optomism' I have encountered for a while.

[well_known_grouse]

we do not know the facts at all so I'm not going to comment at all other than that this young lad was in full time education up to recently .. top of his class in secondary school, went on to GMIT to study and only graduated recently,went to Bolivia seeking work, was (and this is important) an avid internet user .. facebook etc and no doubt communicated with total strangers for some time . Let it be a warning to to us to be wary of how our kids use the internet and the inherent dangers it poses when things get out of control

[Utopian Hermit Monk]

Bolivia is a small far-off country of which you know little...

Far-off, maybe. But small?

Bolivia (1,084,390 Sq Km) is about the size of France and Spain combined, or Texas and California combined.

[Sam Lord]

FG, Labour, SF, independents, Socialists etc., in this country are fighting against a corrupt Government. Should they all be shot?

You are complaining that his friends are presuming his innocence, but you have no problem with you assuming his guilt. Is hypocrisy a talent you were born with or are have you worked hard on it?

"Eduardo lived in the jungle and was involved in regular fights... he was a soldier, a partisan, fighting together with thousands of others in the jungle,"

So FG, Labour, SF etc. are all hiding out in the jungle with weapons if your comparison is correct.

You asked previously what I knew about Morales. I know that he was born and raised in Bolivia and elected by the people of Bolivia to be their leader. The right wing Europeans "fighting" there were not elected to do anything by any Bolivian. They were, however, certainly in the pay of someone you can be sure ... and that person or persons you will find among the "business" class .. possibly backed by a foreign power that claims to uphold freedom and democracy.

When will we be told the name of the "security company" that was apparently unable to recruit anyone local for their legitimate work so they had to import some young lad from County Tipperary. There wasn't full employment in Bolivia last time I heard.

By the way, you keep on using the word hypocrisy in a manner that betrays a clear ignorance of it's meaning. I only point this out for your benefit.

[Partizan]

Greetings all. My first post on Politics.ie.

I’ll try to be concise in addressing some common misconceptions raised during this discussion.

Firstly, the Croatian war was primarily a war of national independence from Milosevic-Serb-domination which was then hiding behind the banner of ‘Socialism’. It was not an anti-socialist war as some on here mistakenly believe, although there were Croatian right-wing forces fighting.
The original HDZ coalition comprised of socialist and nationalist, left and right; and the Croatian National Guard was multi-ethnic, including thousands of Serb ancestry.
Many in Serbia itself (even on the left) opposed Milosevic’s forces as they committed genocide and ethnically cleansed thousands of Croatian citizens.
Tito’s ‘Yugoslavia’, was long gone, indeed it was chiefly dismantled due to the scheming of the exponents of a Greater Serbia, way before any of actions of the early 90’s independence-seeking republics (of which Croatia was the 2nd after Slovenia).

‘Croatian’ is not synonymous with fascism and ‘Serbian’ is not synonymous with socialism to the seeker of fact and truth; though is to those who find it politically convenient to believe so.

Historically, both nations have been split between right and left. During WW2 Nazi puppet governments were installed in both – Pavelic in Croatia and Nedic in Serbia. Each nation developed significant anti-fascist partisan resistance forces in response. However due to the terrible genocide (numbers disputed but doesn't detract from the horror) of Serbs by Croat fascists in the NDH territory, and the fact that the overwhelming bulk of Serb nationalist forces accepted Tito’s Ustase-excluding amnesty and switched sides joining the partisans as the German’s withdrew to Berlin; the subsequent history of the composition of Yugoslavia’s WW2 anti-fascist forces spun from Communist Belgrade was quite different from the truth.

Foreign combatants fighting for Croatia in 1991 also cannot all be conveniently swept into categories of ‘mercenaries’ ‘fascists’ or even ‘right-wing’. Undoubtedly some were, however many were apolitical and went on humanitarian grounds to make a stand against the blatant bullying, artillery and tank encircling/bombarding, sniper-attacking, mass-rape tactics of Milosevic’s forces against the lightly armed Croats which was then being widely televised. A number of those who defended the Croats at this time were also Irish and were neither fascist nor right-wing.

Eduardo Chico Flores was indeed a passionate and complex character and my understanding is that whilst he and Tadic were awarded Croatian citizenship for their actions, there is no evidence to suggest either were fighting for personal gain or profit.

Thus, just because one may disagree with another’s actions or politics itdoesn’t justify dismissing them with unsubstantiated derogatory descriptions.

Let’s try to establish and stick to the facts rather than preconceived politicised or indoctrinated assumption.

In any case, the discrepancies between the official account and the recorded images of the scene is highly suspicious.

Where did you pick that line up from? CNN, the Murdoch media.

I'd wean off the Rambo films if i were you.

Flores and Tadic were nasty right wing crackpots.

Yup it was those bwig bwaad Serbs again. You omit the fact that the JNA Cheifs of Staff in the Croatian war were comprised of Croats and Slovenes so that rules out your Greater Serbia old line that has been spun by the right wing imperial media hacks for years.

Indeed many of the JNA veterans that I spoke to including a Slovenian captain always and still believes that he was fighting for Yugoslavia and that he viewed Croatia's so called 'national war of liberation' as a seperatist rebellion carrying out a Western Imperialist agenda aimed at dismantling and destroying socialist Yugoslavia.

How right he was.

[Partizan]

"Eduardo lived in the jungle and was involved in regular fights... he was a soldier, a partisan, fighting together with thousands of others in the jungle,"

So FG, Labour, SF etc. are all hiding out in the jungle with weapons if your comparison is correct.

You asked previously what I knew about Morales. I know that he was born and raised in Bolivia and elected by the people of Bolivia to be their leader. The right wing Europeans "fighting" there were not elected to do anything by any Bolivian. They were, however, certainly in the pay of someone you can be sure ... and that person or persons you will find among the "business" class .. possibly backed by a foreign power that claims to uphold freedom and democracy.

When will we be told the name of the "security company" that was apparently unable to recruit anyone local for their legitimate work so they had to import some young lad from County Tipperary. There wasn't full employment in Bolivia last time I heard.

By the way, you keep on using the word hypocrisy in a manner that betrays a clear ignorance of it's meaning. I only point this out for your benefit.

exactly, Dwyer must have known what he was getting himself into whenhe linked up with those fascist loons. I mean come on. Bolivia is one of the last places on earth than any unemployed young Irishman would emigrate to looking for a job.

[Hegarty's Crowd]

Where did you pick that line up from? CNN, the Murdoch media....I'd wean off the Rambo films if i were you. .

No idea what you're on about Partizan.

Flores and Tadic were nasty right wing crackpots..

Assuming they are/were right wing (which is debatable) on what do you basis apart from your presumption of their political allegiance do you conclude they’re:

A- nasty

And

B - crackpots

Yup it was those bwig bwaad Serbs again. You omit the fact that the JNA Cheifs of Staff in the Croatian war were comprised of Croats and Slovenes so that rules out your Greater Serbia old line that has been spun by the right wing imperial media hacks for years.

At the time in question there was still a rotational Federal presidency, although the Serbian party refused to accept Stipe Mesic's term (a Communist Croat). Rather than being spun by conspiratory 'right wing imperial media hacks' the 'Greater Serbia old line' is an established fact confirmed by its very own exponents.

I'd be grateful if you could kindly identify the chiefs of staff you refer to and their ethnicity, as opposed to nationality, not that I suspect you're trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes of course. i.e. were any of the 'Croatians' you referred to actually Croatian-Serbs from the Krajina or Dalmatian hinterland per chance?

Indeed many of the JNA veterans that I spoke to including a Slovenian captain always and still believes that he was fighting for Yugoslavia and that he viewed Croatia's so called 'national war of liberation' as a seperatist rebellion carrying out a Western Imperialist agenda aimed at dismantling and destroying socialist Yugoslavia...

I don’t doubt that. Many sincerely believed they were defending a Socialist Yugoslavia... initially.... before the penny finally dropped.

Could their attitude reflect the magnitude of their indoctrination perhaps rather than the reality of the events?

However, most realised what was going on when the Federal bank was plundered, the Republican TO units were disarmed and the memorandum (Greater Serbian blueprint) was promoted before the serbianized army surrounded the towns and cities.
Many Serbs in Serbia proper including left-wing Socialists and even communists however, as I’ve already pointed out, believed the Greater Serbian forces destroyed what was left of the socialist Yugoslavia.

Have you spoken with anyone from the other republics to make such balanced informed opinions..or just selected Yugo-nostalgic socialist Serbs and Slovenes?

[Gruffalo]

"

You asked previously what I knew about Morales.

[COLOR="Red"]no i did not. I said you had never met him. Have you trouble reading?[/COLOR]

I know that he was born and raised in Bolivia and elected by the people of Bolivia to be their leader. The right wing Europeans "fighting" there were not elected to do anything by any Bolivian.

They were, however, certainly in the pay of someone you can be sure ...

[COLOR="Red"]I would not be surprised. But seeing as you are sure, please provide the evidence.[/COLOR]

When will we be told the name of the "security company" that was apparently unable to recruit anyone local for their legitimate work so they had to import some young lad from County Tipperary. There wasn't full employment in Bolivia last time I heard.

By the way, you keep on using the word hypocrisy in a manner that betrays a clear ignorance of it's meaning. I only point this out for your benefit.

No I am well aware of the meaning of hypocrisy. Perhaps you should invest in a dictionary.

[Utopian Hermit Monk]

[SIZE="5"]Hotel Manager contradicts police[/SIZE]

From La Razón newspaper (Bolivia)

1. Hernán Rosel, the hotel's Manager, says that all five members of the group were in their rooms before, during and after the attack on the Cardinal's residence.

2. He says that an inspection of the rooms by the hotel's own security staff found no indication whatsoever that any member of the group fired at the police. The only bullet holes were near the bodies.

3. He is adamant that their car, which police claim was used in the attack on the Cardinal's residence, never left the hotel.

Rosel stated that the five signed the hotel registry on Tuesday night. "Three of them arrived at 8.30p.m., and two more at 10.40 p.m. They said they were visiting Santa Cruz and decided to change hotel. The Receptionist told me that they were very polite."
...

The Special Forces group entered the hotel just after 4.00 a.m. They blew open the door of Room 458, where Eduardo Rozsa was staying. According to the hotel security's report, there were 10 bullet holes close to where his body lay. There wasn't a single bullet hole in the door or the corridor.

Room 457 had 3 bullet holes in the wall, near the bed, where Magyarosi Arpad died. In Room 456, where Michael Martin Dwyer died, there was a single bullet hole....