Irish 'involved' in Bolivia 'assassination attempt'

[toxic avenger]

i think youll find Venezuela is every bit as capable of defending itself from attack as Cuba is , and probably better armed . In fact definitely better armed . Chavez sought to deepen the revolution with proposals to the constitution that workers committees directly responsible for their day to lives and removed governemnt from the equation. But the people narrowly voted no . you cant blame him for that .
all this workers militia stuff sounds like its straight out of some text book im afraid . And youll find a workers militia is incomparable to a properly trained , resourced and equipped modern military force . Which is what venezuela has . A military force whose lower ranks and future officrs cadres are steeped in re volutionary theory .Thats venezuelas future being shaped , with top of the range Russian and Iranian weaponry and technology . Its a very serious project . Simply put Venezuela now possesses the most modern of missile systems which can knock out the united states top of the line aircraft carriers should they try to attack venezuela . Its no Iraq or lebanon , it can defend itself.

And, from what I hear from Caracas, are prepared to defend Bolivia against right-wing secessionists at the drop of a hat, 'advisers' already there...

[merle haggard]

And, from what I hear from Caracas, are prepared to defend Bolivia against right-wing secessionists at the drop of a hat, 'advisers' already there...

theres a bi partite military pact signed between the 2 countries , which in reality means that if anyone tries to oust Morales in a coup or bumps him off then Hugo and the boys in the red berets are going in hard to kick fascist ass . At the same time the Bolivian army is being restructured from the ground up with Venezuelan assitance . And no doubt quite a few of these Venezuelan advisors might perhaps be mistaken by more cynical souls as Cubans .

But of course thats just silly talk . Whoever heard of Cubans having any business in Bolivia ?

[cactusflower]

i think youll find Venezuela is every bit as capable of defending itself from attack as Cuba is , and probably better armed . In fact definitely better armed . Chavez sought to deepen the revolution with proposals to the constitution that workers committees directly responsible for their day to lives and removed governemnt from the equation. But the people narrowly voted no . you cant blame him for that .
all this workers militia stuff sounds like its straight out of some text book im afraid . And youll find a workers militia is incomparable to a properly trained , resourced and equipped modern military force . Which is what venezuela has . A military force whose lower ranks and future officrs cadres are steeped in re volutionary theory .Thats venezuelas future being shaped , with top of the range Russian and Iranian weaponry and technology . Its a very serious project . Simply put Venezuela now possesses the most modern of missile systems which can knock out the united states top of the line aircraft carriers should they try to attack venezuela . Its no Iraq or lebanon , it can defend itself.

I've never referred to a worker's militia. I'm not against a good text book though, if it's the on the nail.

I'm entirely in favour of a professional and highly trained army. I'm also in favour of workers being able to organise through their independent Trade Unions and not some hokey committees with American NGO advisers.
Also, the peasants should not be discouraged from organising to defend themselves. They're under constant abuse. USAID is pouring money into trying to get a foothold in the Indian population. Leave a false gap, and they'll climb into it.

CIP Americas Program | Transitioning Venezuela

You know more than I do about this, but would the Workers Committee and the downplaying of Trade Unions by any chance come from this person:

That Ayers' totalitarian revolutionary agenda isn't history is shown by Ayers today sitting on the directorate of the Miranda International Center, a think tank funded by the Venezuelan government of Hugo Chavez, unofficially a state sponsor of terror that just last weekend was found to be hosting terror training camps with Cuban and FARC operatives to attack its neighbors. Ayers is both a hero and adviser to Hugo Chavez and a colleague of Obama's.

A brief resume of Ayers on the Venezuelan government site describes him as "the leader of the revolutionary and anti-imperialist group The Weather Underground which initiated struggle against the government of the USA," which it calls "the empire."

Ayers is also described as having "developed courses around the urban reform (and) problems of capitalist education."

Ayers is an obvious CIA guy who used the same type of structures in the Chicago School "reform" he worked on to break up the Unions. He was a "Weatherman" who by some extraordinary carelessness of the FBI was let off scot free when he gave himself up after a string of bombings.

If Chavez is taking advice from him he needs to sup with a very long spoon.

[merle haggard]

[quote=cactusflower;1692897]

I've never referred to a worker's militia. I'm not against a good text book though, if it's the on the nail.

in previous posts youve refferred to Ponchos rojas and called for workers militias .

I'm entirely in favour of a professional and highly trained army.

which is what venzeula has and is trying to ensure Bolivia aquires also

I'm also in favour of workers being able to organise through their independent Trade Unions and not some hokey committees with American NGO advisers.

the major trades unions in Venzuela , like Chile before it , are pretty much owned and run by the right while calling themselves independent . I dont know whether you are advocating Mr Chavez bans them or what ? He could also ban all foreign NGOs from the country , or permit them to operate openly where they can be observed and recorded . Which seems to have been a successful policy up to now in thwarting them , which others have failed to do in the past .
Chavez has regularly turfed such people as well as US consular officials out of the country . But unless he drafts laws banning all such people I fail to see how he can live up to your expectations . Even the cubans permit a US consulate and NGOS.

Also, the peasants should not be discouraged from organising to defend themselves. They're under constant abuse. USAID is pouring money into trying to get a foothold in the Indian population. Leave a false gap, and they'll climb into it.

Agan your back to the workers militia theme . A recipe for civil and even race war if ever there was . How can a governemnt legalise one militia and not another ? if it does that then its constitution is worthless along with its authority . The most effective defence for these people is democracy and the rule of law and constitution being upheld by those whos job it is to do it . Not by handing out guns to a self appointed militia under nobodys control . Bolivia is being restructured militarily with Venzuelan assitance to ensure those whose job it is to do that actually do their job according to the constitution and that those with another agenda in mind are being removed . Its essential for both venezuela and Bolivia not to descend into civil war and chaos , that that has been avoided is a great success . Because its more than US dollars which will flood into that gap

You know more than I do about this, but would the Workers Committee and the downplaying of Trade Unions by any chance come from this person:

no . the downplaying of trade unions is a direct result of Venzuelan trade unions being up to their neck in the coup as well as the national strike which came after it and the fact theyre mostly controlled by the right and the CIA . Workers and citizens committees dont have direct control beause Hugo Chavez narrowly lost the referendum which would have given itto them . The venezuela people simply werent prepared to move that far and that fast sadly . Not for the time being anyway .

Ayers is an obvious CIA guy who used the same type of structures in the Chicago School "reform" he worked on to break up the Unions. He was a "Weatherman" who by some extraordinary carelessness of the FBI was let off scot free when he gave himself up after a string of bombings.

Then Id guess both cuba and venezuela are happy to have the guy out in the open where they can see him

If Chavez is taking advice from him he needs to sup with a very long spoon

i dont believe chavez is taking any advice from him . What advice could he possibly give him ?

[Cathar]

The unfortunate problemn in Bolivia is that the Military University is in Santa Cruz and is lectured by people of the calibre of Hugo Acha.
Morales and his Government has decreed that seccenionists and rebels who are current or former army members will be subject to military tribunal.

[merle haggard]

The unfortunate problemn in Bolivia is that the Military University is in Santa Cruz and is lectured by people of the calibre of Hugo Acha.
Morales and his Government has decreed that seccenionists and rebels who are current or former army members will be subject to military tribunal.

venezuela tackled a similar problem by creating a new national university for mostly working class students within a military complex , and combining a free education with inculcation in the revolutionary Bolivarian ethos and constitution along with military service for those students . This will ensure a long term revolutionary officer cadre drawn directly from the working class itself .
Venzuelas official military academy still has a dirty great statue of christopher columbus in its parade ground ffs , quite the ethos .

[cactusflower]

[quote=merle haggard;1693038][quote=cactusflower;1692897]

in previous posts youve refferred to Ponchos rojas and called for workers militias .

I haven't "called for workers militias" - the Ponchos Rojas is a self-formed peasants militia in Bolivia. The peasants are dispersed in remote rural areas and it is hard to see how the Bolivian army can defend them from the types of attack and abuse they have been subjected to from fascists in Santa Cruz.
There are very many instances of militias and voluteer defence organisations having existed alongside regulars on the same side without it leading to chaos and civil war.

the major trades unions in Venzuela , like Chile before it , are pretty much owned and run by the right while calling themselves independent . I dont know whether you are advocating Mr Chavez bans them or what ? He could also ban all foreign NGOs from the country , or permit them to operate openly where they can be observed and recorded . Which seems to have been a successful policy up to now in thwarting them , which others have failed to do in the past .

If the army can be reconstituted, then why not Trade Unions ?

I agree that the role of USAID and their subsidiary NGOs is weakened to some extent by increased recognition of what they do. Venezuela would be better off without them though.

Chavez has regularly turfed such people as well as US consular officials out of the country . But unless he drafts laws banning all such people I fail to see how he can live up to your expectations . Even the cubans permit a US consulate and NGOS.

And a US base. We can't always get what we want.

Agan your back to the workers militia theme . A recipe for civil and even race war if ever there was . How can a governemnt legalise one militia and not another ? if it does that then its constitution is worthless along with its authority . The most effective defence for these people is democracy and the rule of law and constitution being upheld by those whos job it is to do it . Not by handing out guns to a self appointed militia under nobodys control . Bolivia is being restructured militarily with Venzuelan assitance to ensure those whose job it is to do that actually do their job according to the constitution and that those with another agenda in mind are being removed . Its essential for both venezuela and Bolivia not to descend into civil war and chaos , that that has been avoided is a great success . Because its more than US dollars which will flood into that gap

What more do you have in mind ?

no . the downplaying of trade unions is a direct result of Venzuelan trade unions being up to their neck in the coup as well as the national strike which came after it and the fact theyre mostly controlled by the right and the CIA . Workers and citizens committees dont have direct control beause Hugo Chavez narrowly lost the referendum which would have given itto them . The venezuela people simply werent prepared to move that far and that fast sadly . Not for the time being anyway .

What makes you think that the committees would not be similarly directed?

Then Id guess both cuba and venezuela are happy to have the guy out in the open where they can see him

I'd be happy if they had him sent home on the first plane next time he tries to visit.

i dont believe chavez is taking any advice from him . What advice could he possibly give him ?

Like many at the time, Ayers was a child of privilege from a wealthy family who got away with his crimes at a time when the West had lost its will. "Guilty as sin, free as a bird — America is a great country," Ayers taunted after walking free on a technicality.
Ayers is too smart to continue bombing, but remains a "revolutionary" through other means. He remains proud of his violent past and alignment with America's enemies.
"I don't regret setting bombs," he famously told the New York Times. "I feel we didn't do enough." His terrorist past reviled here, he's found a welcome embrace in Hugo Chavez's Venezuela.

He sits on the board of a Venezuelan government think tank called Miranda International Center, focused on bringing Cuba-style education to Venezuelan school children.

Recent polls show this turning of schools toward Marxist indoctrination terrifies average Venezuelans. Venezuelan dissidents also accuse Miranda of rewriting constitutions in South America to grant leftist leaders absolute power, with some saying Ayers had a role in 2007's effort to give Chavez total power inside Venezuela.

...

[cactusflower]

I just came across this article on Obama's meeting with Chavez, and found that it refers to the Bolivian affair.
Mark Weisbrot: With Obama, Latin American leaders are putting aside past grievances with the US | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
The only new thing to me in it, apart from the history of Obama's new Venezuelan advisor, is that it says that USAID has refused under the FOI to release information on which opposition groups it funds in Bolivia.

[Cathar]

I just came across this article on Obama's meeting with Chavez, and found that it refers to the Bolivian affair.
Mark Weisbrot: With Obama, Latin American leaders are putting aside past grievances with the US | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
The only new thing to me in it, apart from the history of Obama's new Venezuelan advisor, is that it says that USAID has refused under the FOI to release information on which opposition groups it funds in Bolivia.

Lazy article the USAID budget and expenditure by contractor is listed on tjhis thread. FOI works.

[lostexpectation]

I hadn't seen this one of Tibor before.

yes you right this could be him i had dismissed it before because his face was obscured


so another one of his friends is on boards.ie again, claiming he was just security guard and no political outlook