Irish 'involved' in Bolivia 'assassination attempt'

[cactusflower]

I see and how do you determine a persons track record? By their Bebo page? By some pictures taken or by the ramblings of someone who claimed to know them? This is all nonsense.
When dealing with terrorists there are lines that should not be crossed. The USA crossed some of those lines during the Bush administration and the USA has paid for it. President Morales should not make similar mistakes. Suspected terrorists should be granted all the legal protections and sate guards of a normal criminal. Bolivias police deptartment should be unified under a single set of guidelines. There should be no separate La Paz police and Santa Cruz police.
What is all this talk of apologists? Apologising for what? I think you have been watching too many episodes of 24, large convoluted plotes like these do not happen in the real world.

First, why not agree on the facts that are not in dispute?
Dwyer travelled to Santa Cruz with Revesz - they had worked together at the "Shell to Sea" protests
Revesz advertised on the internet for men to come to Bolivia
Rozsa Flores left a video testament stating his anti-Morales and pro autonomy stance and intention to illegally import arms and form a militia. He said he was working for the Committe for Santa Cruz - representing the interests of wealthy rightwingers and the petroleum industry.
The group of five men were staying together in a serious of hotels in Santa Cruz
They were heavily armed
They all had the same tattoos
They socialised together
They made some trips outside the city to wealthy peoples' houses
Dwyer attended an opposition demonstration.
Three were shot and two were arrested in a night time police raid.
Dwyer was shot, apparently from the back, with one bullet.
A UJC member (young facist) admitted to selling a gun to RF.
Acha, of the US Human Rights Foundation, an associate of the autonomy movement, admitted to having met "clandestine" Rosza Flores four or five times. Acha left for the US five days after the shooting.

All of this has taken place in a context in which there has been repeated US interference in and attempted subversion of Latin American governments.

[merle haggard]

yeah but he was from tipperary like . And everyone knows Evo Morales is a bad man with bad left wing policies . Very very bad that man and his polices .. That seems to be the entire argument in dwyers defence no matter what is actually proven about him. Your only arguing against mindsets , not anyone whos prepared to take a single fact on board

[Gruffalo]

[quote=jcdf;1617228]

I see and how do you determine a persons track record?

Flores' is actually documented. Photgraphic evidence, video taped evidence, testimony from witnesses - there is a wealth of evidence which you are choosing to ignore.

By their Bebo page?

That gave a few photos of Dwyer and his friends, that is about it. Nobody has claimed that this is the source of great evidence

By some pictures taken

Are you suggesting that pictures of these scum with an arsenal of deadly weapons is not relevant?

or by the ramblings of someone who claimed to know them?

No his family, friends and "alleged" girlfriend are the ones claiming to know him. They have been proven wrong more than once.

When dealing with terrorists there are lines that should not be crossed.

Like what. Two of the men were taken alive which suggests that the cops were willing to do it the peaceful way.

The USA crossed some of those lines during the Bush administration and the USA has paid for it. President Morales should not make similar mistakes.

So you are admitting that he has not made these mistakes. Are you making mystic meg predictions then.

Suspected terrorists should be granted all the legal protections and sate guards of a normal criminal.

And with your vast knowledge of the Bolivian judicial system, what evidence do you have that they are being treated differently.

Bolivias police deptartment should be unified under a single set of guidelines. There should be no separate La Paz police and Santa Cruz police.

Morales is the one trying to keep La Paz and Santa Cruz united. Dwyer and chums were the ones opposing that. Please keep up.

What is all this talk of apologists? Apologising for what?

Get a dictionary.

I think you have been watching too many episodes of 24, large convoluted plotes like these do not happen in the real world.

So JFK was not assassinated in real life?

No country had ever been thrown into civil war?

World War 1 was not started by an assassination?

What "real world" are you living in?

I suggest you read the thread, which you clearly still have not done, and then if you still are thinking silly things like it is not the polices job to preempt or prevent crime, go away.

[Mr Crowley]

Dwyer had most likely have completed close protection courses with live weapons training. The courses are outlined on this thread. The courses are designed by former 26C special forces personnel. They have an operation in Nairobi; that might only be their co-ordination base for Africa
Just imagine the amount of mercenary contract work a company like that could handle with a ready supply of European and American former soldiers. Some of that is 'protection work', like they do at Corrib.
It's the assistance in resource rape and you cannot even imagine how bloody and corrupt things are in parts of Africa; as the world steals from people treated like animals. There would be uproar if what is done to Africans was done to animals in the west.
This we are conditioned to accept as just part of life. It is little different from the days of the East India Company except are there no longer royal troops and there is more competition.
Young men like Dwyer are getting lured into this business; how many Irish men with military experience are out assisting death squads or protecting despots in Africa?
Dwyer's company protected Shell and Fianna Fáil in Ireland; while training extremists for overseas work.
There was obviously a prevalent right wing extremist culture within the Corrib workforce; which Dwyer bought into. This asks considerable questions about the ethos of the 26C military and Ranger corps in particular.
The Dwyer case highlights the rotten nature of western society as a whole and Irish society in particular. The fact that the inherently corrupt media and Govt would make pathetic attempts to spin the situation makes it all the more apparent.

[IrishTom]

Dwyer had most likely have completed close protection courses with live weapons training. The courses are outlined on this thread. The courses are designed by former 26C special forces personnel. They have an operation in Nairobi; that might only be their co-ordination base for Africa
Just imagine the amount of mercenary contract work a company like that could handle with a ready supply of European and American former soldiers. Some of that is 'protection work', like they do at Corrib.
It's the assistance in resource rape and you cannot even imagine how bloody and corrupt things are in parts of Africa; as the world steals from people treated like animals. There would be uproar if what is done to Africans was done to animals in the west.
This we are conditioned to accept as just part of life. It is little different from the days of the East India Company except are there no longer royal troops and there is more competition.
Young men like Dwyer are getting lured into this business; how many Irish men with military experience are out assisting death squads or protecting despots in Africa?
Dwyer's company protected Shell and Fianna Fáil in Ireland; while training extremists for overseas work.
There was obviously a prevalent right wing extremist culture within the Corrib workforce; which Dwyer bought into. This asks considerable questions about the ethos of the 26C military and Ranger corps in particular.
The Dwyer case highlights the rotten nature of western society as a whole and Irish society in particular. The fact that the inherently corrupt media and Govt would make pathetic attempts to spin the situation makes it all the more apparent.

what a rediculous load of rubbish.

Dwyer if he was workin as a mercenary was most likely very naive to the realities involved in such a thing.

he had no formal military training.
he did not appear to be physicly fit as you would expect from a person whos job it is to be fighting fit at all times.

also the only mindset that exists in the 26c army is get me money and go home, as long as my wages are in the bank i dont care about anything, that is the way 99% of all soldiers in the 26c army think.

you are away with the fairies if you realy think there is any type of extreme right wing ethos in the free state army. cop the fuucck on!

[Mr Crowley]

what a rediculous load of rubbish.

you are away with the fairies if you realy think there is any type of extreme right wing ethos in the free state army. cop the fuucck on!

No I'm talking about the 26C army, whatever it is they call themselves. The one you weren't a full time soldier in and sure you're definitely not an extreme right wing muppet on a Jesus buzz

[lostexpectation]

also the only mindset that exists in the 26c army is get me money and go home, as long as my wages are in the bank i dont care about anything, that is the way 99% of all soldiers in the 26c army think.

you're defining mercenaries

[mattheil]

Incidentally, Achá's organization, the U.S.-affiliated 'Human Rights Foundation' has been filing reports on political killings and human rights abuses by groups related to Morales' MAS party. They have always made a point of sending copies of these reports to Morales himself.

--- Which HRF reports regarding 'human rights abuses by groups related to Morales' MAS party' (also note your plural) do you mean UHM?
Human Rights Foundation - Reports
(Or do confuse Bolivia with Venezuela perhaps?)
One thing the HRF certainly does is identifying a single case and then using it to define this case 'as a rule' in the country whose prez and system they don't like. Or in other words: The HRF folks pic one or two pieces to make people believe that a whole system is rotten. The HR perspective of that so called HR Foundation should become clearer if you look at their website looking for a report about the events in September last year especially in Pando, Santa Cruz, Tarija - you are left with finding nothing.

For a balanced look at Sep08 events in Tarija from a U Manchester researcher see here: http://www.sed.manchester.ac.uk/rese...taries_000.pdf

BTW...Morales seemingly read that (single) report the HRF provided on communal justice (titled propaganda style: "Enshrining Mob Rule in Bolivia"). Find: 'Bolivian Government Responds to HRF' @ The Human Rights Foundation

[Utopian Hermit Monk]

--- Which HRF reports regarding 'human rights abuses by groups related to Morales' MAS party' (also note your plural) do you mean UHM?
Human Rights Foundation - Reports
(Or do confuse Bolivia with Venezuela perhaps?)

Am I confusing Bolivia with Venezuela?
Yeah, sure!!

For more reports/commentaries (2007-2009) from the Bolivian branch of HRF: Fundación de Derechos Humanos de Bolivia

The HR perspective of that so called HR Foundation should become clearer if you look at their website looking for a report about the events in September last year especially in Pando, Santa Cruz, Tarija - you are left with finding nothing.

Check out this interview with Alejanda Berbery of HRF, where she specifically mentions their forthcoming report on Pando as a possible reason for their being targeted now: "Evo teme el informe de Pando" : ErnestoJustiniano.org


The new evidence supplied by Gueder and Mendoza is now the major focus of attention in the Bolivian media.
Also, the prosecutor's 'key witness' has now been identified as Ignacio Villapaz, who may have acted as Rozsa Flores' driver. Apparently, he had turned double agent some time ago, and was receiving money in exchange for inside information.
It looks like Gueder will persist in his accusation that Hugo Achá was involved.
But Pedraza has also produced more evidence implicating Commandant Tapia (previously in charge of an anti-narcotics operation in the Santa Cruz region; now Chief of the Delta Unit involved in the April 16 shootings) in illegal arms smuggling in Santa Cruz. He continues to claim that Minister Rada was fully aware of the arms smuggling.

It is looking to me as if, not just Michael Dwyer and the other younger members of the Rozsa Flores group, but also Rozsa Flores himself naively wandered into a Bolivian hornets' nest involving right-wing Santa Cruz separatists, local drug traffickers, both local and national police authorities and even a U.S.-sponsored NGO which may, or may not, have become entangled in regional and geopolitical intrigue (especially during the Bush years and/or the term of expelled U.S. Ambassador Philip Goldberg).

As this story unfolds, there are plots within plots within plots, and it includes, but extends far beyond, Santa Cruz. Whoever decided that it would be a good move to introduce a loose cannon like Eduardo Rozsa Flores into this mess may have been crazy, or may have pulled off a master stroke. I don't think it is possible to know which is the more likely explanation.

I seriously doubt that the full truth will ever be known. There are too many powerful interests involved.

[toxic avenger]

Dwyer linked with neo-Nazi group: claim - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie