Irish 'involved' in Bolivia 'assassination attempt'

[Partizan]

Nobody doubts the media lies and is full of propaganda (from numerous sides), however this isn’t some exclusive revelation of Crowley & Merle as you claim.
True, they have, as other posters, challenged inaccuracies and I’ve given them credit where credit’s due, as have other posters, but they’ve also insulted others, bored the hell out of many by harping on about tattooes, runes and their liberal denouncements of anyone who disagrees with them as being ‘Nazis’ and in doing so wasted much of what was an informative thread.

The (quite right) questioning of the sudden flurry of new posters the other day is also not an exclusive ‘Crowley and Merle’ production. Others again commented and indeed I myself suggested investigating the origin of the IP addresses. So let’s get the facts right…although facts are something which appear foreign to you.


How convenient. You have no argument so you suddenly smell a rat…
Who are these ‘others’ your posts constantly refer to? Can they not speak for themselves?

It’s not a rat you smell…but your own stench

Let me see. In the mainstream media it was quite clear that there was a concerted campaign to downplay or portray Dwyer as an innocent man in the media and on the internet. Cue Dick Roche's statement that Dwyer was nothing but an innocent tourist. I dont have to explain to you again Dwyer's suspicious activities in Santa Cruz, his association with his fascist fun buddies given the sensitive political climate in Bolivia. Roche shooting off his mouth didnt help matters and with Morales living daily with plots to kill him and topple his government you can forgive him to feel a bit edgy. Wouldnt you Bungle?

What a nonsensical post. How can someone pretend to call themselves something? Catch on. I stated my political belief and unlike you there's been no pretence.



I see you’re a fan of fiction too Partizan eh? Not one of your blatant inventions in your above paragraph has any basis in fact.

I have both Serb and Croat friends and - unlike you with your selective anti-fascism - and I despise fascism per se whether Ustase Croat or Ljotic Serb, as equally as I do communism and any other form of thought-suppressing entities whether religious or otherwise. Whilst also anti-Milosevic and anti-Tudjman, I opposed the breakup of the SFRY and the subsequent US/NATO imperialist intervention in the Balkans so I’d be grateful if you could explain on what basis you made the above uncorroborated allegations (which you seem to have a knack for).
Oh and when you get chance, let me know the names of the eve-of-Croatian-war ‘multi-ethnic’ JNA chiefs of staff you told us all about that you believe ‘demolished’ the myth of a greater serbian plan. (The north-western theatre staff are actually more relevant and I can also let you know who they were…although I’m sure you won’t be interested.)

The difference between us is that I strive for a balanced view; and you strive to re-enforce your political view which causes you to misinterpret and misunderstand the former.

It is you is biased, not I.

Really Bungle. Talking about Croats in the JNA, I give you Zelkjo Kadijevic (JNA Chief of Staff), Zvonko Jurjevic (Chief Commander of Yugoslav Airforce), Ante Markovic who was Slobo's PM and not to mention Stane Brovat, the Slovene head of the Yugoslav Navy.

You describe Croatia's war earlier as homeland defensive war. It was in its ********************. They attacked the Yugoslav Army (defenders of Yugoslavia) who by the way were the only legal army permitted within the territory of Yugoslavia as stated in the Yugoslav Constitution and Croatia cessesion from the Yugoslav Federation under the Constitution. The Serbs were the ones fighting a defensive war. After all Tudjman had scratched the rights of Serbs from the Croatian Constitution in 1990, sanctioned wholesale sackings of thousands of Serbs, feminists and Yugoslav communists from government jobs. Also his "Thank God my wife is neither a Serb nor a Jew speech" , pogroms against Serbian and Yugoslav businesses, not to mention the officially sanctioned rehabilitation of Ustasa figures and symbols. Oh yeah throw in the Seig Heils in Parliament... Its no wonder Serbs were screaming to Belgrade for protection. Perfect opportunity for Slobbo. Biased, Jesus wept.

Partizan, you neither represent Irish Republicanism nor, despite your repeated references to others, indicating that you cannot form and support your own arguments unaided, cite the names of great balanced humane men of thought and vision on one hand; to support your callous, ignorant, biased and blind attempts at argument on the other.
Your appear to subscribe to some brand of ‘republican socialism’ which is all very well, but that is merely an ideological strand of Irish Republicanism not Irish republican ideology (which also includes socialism) per se. So cease acting like a conceited pompous arrogant little twit.

yawn

Correct. He was also a man denounced by his socialist contemporaries for throwing his lot in with a narrow ‘nationalist revolt’, however I’m unsure whether he’d condone the state-sanctioned shoot-to-kill of unarmed political opponents if that is what’s happened, and which, either way, is a policy you appear to condone.

I can discuss Irish Republicanism with you on another thread another time. In the meantime I’d suggest you concentrate on aiming to establish facts without the political goggles otherwise you just come across like a biased extreme-left Zippy off Rainbow, struggling to follow a blindfolded Bungle and George as all three of you bumble around a darkened room in circles yelling ‘everything’s so clear!’

I dont and never have condoned a shoot to kill policy. Ok Bungle.

[Frankie Lee]

Fair play to Micheal Martin, if only he was government spokesperson over the weekend instead of Dick Roche a lot of national embarrassment would have been avoided.

Mr Martin said he would seek to speak to his Bolivian counterpart to day to “confirm our interest in seeing that this matter is pursued in the spirit of friendship and cooperation which characterises relations between Ireland and Bolivia”.

[Gruffalo]

Kudos to Martin, good statement.

(Note that me complimenting a FF minister is not normal.. in fact it makes me feel dirty.. I'm off now to shower.)

Nor me but credit where credit is due.

[imokyrok]

When a guy points a gun at you, you do as you are told. You are still in your little fairy world thinking that Mike and his buddies were lovely innocent fellows. The police were dealing with a known mercenary and his associates. You don't take risks, sudden movements get people killed. Failure to obey instructions get people killed.

I am with you on the hands tied one, that is altogether baffling.

Are you sure about the hands being tied? The pictures I saw were not clear on that. When the man was lying face down in the hotel room the angle of the arms looked wrong for the wrists to be tied together and later in the morgue it looked more like rigour mortis has resulted in the arms retaining the same position. I couldn't see any bindings but the morgue picture was not very clear.

[Gruffalo]

Are you sure about the hands being tied? The pictures I saw were not clear on that. When the man was lying face down in the hotel room the angle of the arms looked wrong for the wrists to be tied together and later in the morgue it looked more like rigour mortis has resulted in the arms retaining the same position. I couldn't see any bindings but the morgue picture was not very clear.

That is a very good point. I am not certain, now that I think back, I cannot say that I saw binding of any sort. Your explanation would make sense here.

[Limerick Lad]

When a guy points a gun at you, you do as you are told. You are still in your little fairy world thinking that Mike and his buddies were lovely innocent fellows. The police were dealing with a known mercenary and his associates. You dont take risks, sudden movements get people killed. Failure to obey instructions get people killed.

I am with you on the hands tied one, that is altogether baffling.

How do you know how Michael Dwyer and the other two men reacted when the police bust into there rooms, were you there? What evidence is there that they didn't comply police commands yet were still shot.

Even if you believe that this was not a premeditated police raid conveniently not necessitating the presence of a prosecutor accompanying the police on the raid and believe the fairytale concocted by the police that they happened to be passing by and a gun battle broke out, why did the police deny the local prosecutor access to the crime scene for a number of hours instead awaiting the arrival of a more compliant prosecutor from La Paz.

[Set Straight]

I dont and never have condoned a shoot to kill policy. Ok Bungle.

I was expecting a much longer insulting comeback to that, Hegarty must have hit a nerve, I'm disappointed in you Partyboy.

[Gruffalo]

How do you know how Michael Dwyer and the other two men reacted when the police bust into there rooms, were you there? What evidence is there that they didn't comply police commands yet were still shot.

Even if you believe that this was not a premeditated police raid conveniently not necessitating the presence of a prosecutor accompanying the police on the raid and believe the fairytale concocted by the police that they happened to be passing by and a gun battle broke out, why did the police deny the local prosecutor access to the crime scene for a number of hours instead awaiting the arrival of a more compliant prosecutor from La Paz.

Read my other posts you silly boy. I have pointed out that the evidence suggests that there was an opportunity to surrender i.e. two prisoners were taken unharmed. I have pointed out that this cannot be taken as fact but there is more evidence for this that against it.

I have also stated more than once that I don't believe the shoot out story, in fact if you read the link I put up earlier, you will see that the Bolivian Government are not pushing that story anymore, if they ever really were.

There are clearly issues between La Paz administration and Santa Cruz. If you read Morales interview, posted earlier by UHM, you will see who asked him to form his militia. It goes a long way to explaining the level of distrust.

[cactusflower]

There certainly are issues between the La Paz administration and the provincial administration of Santa Cruz.

Machinenation.org • View topic - US Ambassador Expelled from Bolivia by Morales - Yet Another attack by the US on Democracy?

This is from a year ago -

The US Ambassador to Bolivia Philip Goldburg is saying the US must intervene to back the right wing secessionist movement in Bolivia. He does not seem to have the same regard for Morales as his Georgian equivalent has for Saakashvili. Will the US send humanitarian aid to Morales government ?

Serious street disturbances were shown on Euronews today.

Autonomy protests wrack Bolivia
Posted: 07:50 PM ET
SANTA CRUZ, Bolivia (CNN) — An insurrection against President Evo Morales in the eastern part of the country entered its second week Tuesday, with groups backed by local governors seizing control of government offices and airports and threatening to shut off a gas pipeline supplying Argentina and Brazil.

In Santa Cruz, mobs rampaged into the main telephone office, which had recently been nationalized, and took control of the internal revenue and agrarian reform offices in the town center. Government security forces were forced to retreat back to their barracks, some of them were beaten and had their weapons stolen and by evening control of the city center was firmly in the hands of demonstrators demanding autonomy.

The bulk of the army was busy ensuring gas continued to flow through the pipeline. Brazilian Foreign Minister Celso Amorim has warned that if Morales fails to secure the pipeline, Brazil may have to open its own contacts with the eastern governors.

Morales, the nation’s first Indian president, was elected on promises to nationalize some industries and redistribute wealth to the largely impoverished Indian population. Last month, he won a new mandate in a referendum on his rule, but the eastern provinces voted overwhelmingly for autonomy in votes that Morales calls invalid.


Morales doesn't want to send troops in against the \"Santa Cruz Youth Movement\" that is wrecking government buildings including the land reform offices. If the elected Government is to survive he will need to organise his own supporters to defend it.Morales rural based supporters from the South are coming to La Paz to look for more action against the secessionists.

If you want to see what Goldburg and the US have, or may have, been doing, you could read this.

The Ambassador of Ethnic Cleansing Machetera

Just a small extract here:\"

Last June 28th, the 20 year old U.S. citizen Donna Thi, from Miami, was detained at the airport in La Paz, for trying to bring in five hundred 45-caliber bullets which she’d declared as “cheese” to customs. Waiting for her in the terminal was the wife of Colonel James Campbell, the head of the military section at the U.S. embassy in Bolivia.

The North American Ambassador, Philip Goldberg, intervened immediately to obtain the woman’s release and said that it was all “an innocent mistake.” The ammunition, he said, was meant for “sport and entertainment.”

Bolivia’s Director of Migration, Magaly Zegarra, did not hold the same opinion as the Ambassador. According to her, “the fact that a North American citizen, related to the embassy, is carrying ammunition on a North American aircraft coming from Miami, a city where terrorists from all over Latin America are protected by the government, especially their teacher, as Posada is called by the terrorists, and make a mockery of all [justice] mechanisms, is questionable.”

These days, immigration agents and Bolivian police are careful with passengers coming from the United States. In March of 2006, another U.S. citizen, Triston Jay Amero, a.k.a. Lestat Claudius, a 25 year old Californian carrying 15 different identity documents, set off 300 kilos of dynamite in two hotels in La Paz. And on December 8th of this year, when the Summit of the South American Community of Nations was held in Cochabamba, security services uncovered the presence of two fake U.S. journalists photographing presidential vehicles.

In the Bolivian diplomatic world, as an expert pusher of separatism, Philip Goldberg’s nickname is “the Ambassador of Ethnic Cleansing.” Between 1994 and 1996 he was Special Assistant to Ambassador Richard Holbrooke, one of the strategists behind Yugoslavian disintegration. He also promoted Serbia’s and Montenegro’s separation and was in Kosovo, where he fomented conflict between Serbian and Albanian forces.\"

People are entitled to their political differences, left and right, in any country, and to be left to have them without a much more powerful outside State engaging in active partisan destabilisation

The speculation on the events of the shootings and on Dwyer's exact role is perhaps distracting from the issue of who, if anyone, was behind this whole "adventure".

[Breadan O'Connor]

TIME has an article on Rosza Flores in which it says he is suspected of the death of a British journalist.

Bolivia: The Bizarre Life and Death of a Failed Assassin - TIME

It seems to me that Flores in his "career" was essentially carrying out the agenda of the washington neocon establishment. From fomenting war in the Balkans to a mysterious appearance in Iraq, a hard to believe "conversion" to Islam, and finally fighting the Morales government.