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Thread: Treaty between The United States and The United Kingdom

  1. #1
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    Treaty between The United States and The United Kingdom

    Please I know this is long but please take the time to read and give a good constructive assessment.


    Enclosed is Dr Francis A. Boyle’s proposed testimony before the Senate
    Foreign Relations Committee against the US/UK Extradition Treaty.

    It is published here with permission of the author. He further grants
    permission for others to circulation and use it to organize opposition
    to holding the next round of treaty hearings. You are free to circulate
    it, print it, publish it etc as you see fit.

    *************************

    Testimony In Opposition To The Ratification Of The
    Proposed Extradition Treaty Between The United States
    And The United Kingdom (31 March 2003)

    by

    Professor Francis A. Boyle

    Before the Committee on Foreign Relations of the
    United States Senate - 2006

    Good day. My name is Francis A. Boyle, Professor of Law at
    the University of Illinois College of Law in Champaign. I
    have already submitted to the Members of this Committee a
    detailed Memorandum of Law against the ratification of this
    proposed Extradition Treaty dated 4 March 2004 that I
    respectfully request be entered into the formal record of
    these proceedings together with my written comments here
    today.

    The United States of America was founded by means of a
    Declaration of Independence and a Revolutionary War fought
    against the British Monarchy. But under the terms of this
    proposed Extradition Treaty, our Founding Fathers and
    Mothers such as John Hancock, George Washington, Thomas
    Jefferson, James and Dolly Madison would be extradited to
    the British Monarchy for prosecution, persecution, and
    execution for the very revolutionary activities that
    founded the United States of America itself.
    Because of this American legacy of revolution against
    British Tyranny, the U.S. has always provided a safe haven
    for those seeking refuge on our shores. We have always been
    wary of efforts by foreign powers to transport Americans
    and foreigners for prosecution abroad on political charges.
    Indeed, in the Declaration of Independence, one of the
    specific complaints against British Tyranny made by Thomas
    Jefferson himself was directed at the British outrage of
    "transporting us beyond seas to be tried for pretended
    offences." Such is the case for this Treaty! For that
    reason, several episodes in the early history of our
    Republic, such as that of Citizen Genet under Thomas
    Jefferson, laid the foundation for the uniquely American
    notion of the "political offense exception" to extradition.
    In essence, the political offense exception holds that
    people in the United States will not be handed over to
    foreign governments for criminal prosecution when the crime
    alleged is political in nature.

    The political offense exception has since become a standard
    part of public international law. But the political offense
    exception is not some abstract notion created by the World
    Court, or the United Nations, or any other international
    body. It began right here in the United States of America -
    ". . . the land of the free, and the home of the brave."
    And it was created by our Founding Fathers and Mothers who
    knew, from personal experience, that it was outrageously
    unfair for a state to hand a person over to another state
    for political prosecution and persecution. It is a bedrock
    principle of American Justice.

    This basic principle of American Justice is now under
    assault by means of this Treaty which surely has George
    Washington, Thomas Jefferson as well as James and Dolly
    Madison turning over in their graves. This new Treaty marks
    an unprecedented departure from two centuries of American
    extradition practice. Although the new Treaty pays lip-
    service to the political offense exception, it effectively
    eliminates the political offense exception for all
    practical purposes.

    For example, the political offense exception is eliminated
    for any offense allegedly involving violence or weapons,
    including any solicitation, conspiracy, or attempt to
    commit such crimes. As we have repeatedly seen in Chicago,
    Florida, and New York, inter alia, undercover government
    agents infiltrate peaceful Irish American groups, suggest
    criminal activity to them, and then falsely claim that
    innocent members of these groups agreed with their
    suggestions. That is all it takes for a conspiracy to be
    extraditable under this proposed Treaty.

    Even worse yet, all it would take for any of the people in
    this room to get extradited under this proposed Treaty is a
    false allegation from the British Monarchy that one of its
    spies overheard them say something reckless about weapons
    or the armed struggle in Ireland. This Treaty is
    unconstitutional under the First Amendment to the United
    States Constitution, which Britain does not have. Indeed,
    we Americans fought a bitter Revolutionary War against the
    British Monarchy in order to establish our own Constitution
    and Bill of Rights, neither of which Britain has.
    Under the terms of this proposed Treaty, it would be the
    politicians and diplomats at the U.S. Department of State,
    not a United States Federal Judge, who would be
    adjudicating the First Amendment Rights of Irish American
    Citizens, Voters, and Taxpayers. My 4 March 2004 Memorandum
    to you has already identified several other constitutional
    protections set forth in our American Bill of Rights that
    will be violated by this proposed Extradition Treaty with
    the British Monarchy that I will not review now but
    respectfully incorporate by reference.

    In addition, this proposed Treaty wipes out a number of
    constitutional and procedural safeguards. It eliminates any
    statue of limitations, unconstitutionally eliminates the
    need for any showing of probable cause, permits
    unconstitutional indefinite preventive detention, applies
    retroactively to offenses allegedly committed before the
    Treaty's ratification, eliminates the time-honored Rule of
    Specialty in all but name, allows for the unconstitutional
    seizure of assets, and permits extradition under Article
    2(4) for conduct that is perfectly lawful in the United
    States. This Treaty retroactively criminalizes perfectly
    lawful conduct
    in violation of the constitutional
    prohibition on Ex Post Facto laws set forth in Article I,
    Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution as well as the basic
    principles of public international law and human rights and
    jus cogens known as nullum crimen sine lege, nulla poena
    sine lege - no crime without law, no punishment without
    law. Under this Treaty, the heirs of George Washington
    could have their assets seized as proceeds of a criminal
    terrorist conspiracy.

    Most outrageously, responsibility for determining whether a
    prosecution is politically motivated is transferred from
    the U.S. Federal Courts to the executive branch of
    government. This means that instead of having your day in
    court, before a neutral Federal Judge, you will be required
    to rely on the not-so-tender mercies of the Department of
    State, which historically has always been soundly
    Anglophile, pro-British, anti-Irish, and against Irish
    Americans and Irish America. There are now over twenty
    million Irish American Citizens, Voters, and Taxpayers, and
    we all especially like to vote. These and the several other
    court-stripping provisions of this proposed Treaty are
    unconstitutional under Article III of the United States
    Constitution.

    As the current U.S. Irish deportation cases show, Britain
    can easily return Irish and British citizens to Britain. So
    why is the British Monarchy now trying now to shift the
    extradition decision from the U.S. Federal Courts to the
    executive branch? Because you cannot deport a U.S. citizen.
    A U.S. citizen has to be extradited. Article 3 of the
    proposed Treaty makes it crystal clear that the British
    Monarchy wants to target Irish American Citizens for
    persecution in Crown courts, which have a long history of
    perpetrating legal atrocities against innocent Irish
    People.
    That is precisely why the U.S. Senate deliberately
    put the so-called Rule of Inquiry by a U.S. Federal Judge
    into Article 3 of the 1986 Supplementary Extradition Treaty
    with Britain. This proposed Treaty eliminates the Senate's
    well-grounded Rule of Inquiry to prevent British Crown
    courts mistreating Irish People.

    Furthermore, unlike Article VIIIbis of the proposed
    Extradition Protocol with Israel, for some mysterious and
    unexplained reason Article 6 of the proposed Extradition
    Treaty with the British Monarchy eliminates any statute of
    limitations requirements. So citizens of Israel get to
    benefit from a statute of limitations, but Irish American
    Citizens of the United States do not. Why this differential
    treatment on behalf of foreigners and against Irish
    American Citizens in these two simultaneously proposed
    Extradition Treaties?

    The answer to this question becomes quite clear in Article
    2(2) and Article 4(2)(g) of the proposed Extradition Treaty
    with the British Monarchy, which renders extraditable an
    accessory after the fact to an extraditable offense. Since
    there are no statute of limitations requirements and the
    proposed Treaty is retroactive, any Irish American Citizen
    who provided assistance to Joe Doherty would today be
    extraditable under this proposed Treaty as an accessory
    after the fact to Mr. Doherty. In addition, such Irish
    American Doherty supporters would be provisionally arrested
    and indefinitely detained under Article 12 of the proposed
    Treaty. Finally, according to Article 16 of the proposed
    Treaty, such Irish American Doherty supporters would have
    their homes, businesses, cars, and other property seized,
    sold and surrendered to the British Monarchy.

    That is the real agenda behind this proposed Extradition
    Treaty with the British Monarchy: British retaliation
    against Irish American Citizens, Voters and Taxpayers
    because of our near universal support for Joe Doherty and
    other I.R.A. soldiers who fled to the United States of
    America seeking refuge from fighting their own revolution
    against British Tyranny in Ireland since the Proclamation
    of the Irish Republic on Easter Sunday 1916. This proposed
    Treaty has been designed by the British government to
    eviscerate, overturn, and reverse the delicately crafted
    human rights compromises that were deliberately built into
    the 1986 Supplementary Extradition Treaty by the Senate
    Foreign Relations Committee
    and other concerned Members of
    the United States Senate. Will the United States Senate and
    this Committee permit the British Monarchy to traduce its
    previous handiwork? I certainly trust not.

    Next, for reasons fully explained in my 4 March 2004
    Memorandum to you, if the Senate were to consent to this
    proposed Extradition Treaty, that would effectively
    abrogate the most basic human rights of Irish American
    Citizens under the International Covenant on Civil and
    Political Rights to which the United States is a
    contracting party. Furthermore, such Senate consent to this
    proposed Treaty would also place the United States of
    America in breach of its solemn treaty obligations under
    numerous provisions of that human rights Covenant with
    respect to all the other contracting states parties. Such
    violations will render the United States subject to the
    treaty enforcement mechanisms of that Covenant as well as
    to the other ordinary enforcement mechanisms, remedies, and
    sanctions for violating a solemnly concluded international
    human rights treaty as well as the basic principle of
    customary international law and jus cogens that pacta sunt
    servanda: i.e., treaties must be obeyed.

    My 4 March 2004 Memorandum to you established that the
    proposed Extradition Treaty will grossly violate this
    solemn International Human Rights Covenant that has
    received the advice and consent of 2/3rds of the Members of
    the United States Senate and is thus "the supreme Law of
    the Land" under Article VI of the United States
    Constitution. Nevertheless, the two lawyers from the
    Departments of State and Justice who appeared before this
    Committee on 15 November 2005 did not even bother to
    address these weighty issues of international law, U.S.
    constitutional law, U.S. treaty law, and basic human rights
    protections. With all due respect, this Committee must
    uphold the Senate's constitutional responsibilities and
    prerogatives under the Treaties Clause in Article II,
    Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution by demanding that both
    the Departments of State and Justice formally respond in
    writing to my 4 March 2004 Memorandum's arguments that this
    proposed Extradition Treaty will violate the International
    Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, to which both the
    United States and the United Kingdom are contracting
    parties.

    Finally, the British Monarchy has continued to maintain a
    colonial military occupation regime consisting in part of
    about 15,000 soldiers in the six northeast counties of
    Ireland in gross violation of the right of the Irish People
    to self-determination under both customary and conventional
    international law, including but not limited to Article
    I(1) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political
    Rights to which the Republic of Ireland, the United States,
    and the British Monarchy are all contracting parties. This
    longstanding instance of British criminality has been
    analyzed in great detail by my article The Decolonization
    of Northern Ireland, 4 Asian Yearbook of International Law
    25-46 (1995), a copy of which is attached. I respectfully
    request that this article be submitted into the formal
    record of these proceedings.

    All of the above incontestable historical facts provide
    proof-positive of precisely why this proposed Treaty of
    Extradition with the British Monarchy must be treated
    completely differently from any other extradition treaty
    that the United States of America might have or propose to
    have with any other country in the world. All of these
    other so-called modern extradition treaties are
    historically, politically, and legally inapposite to this
    proposed Extradition Treaty with the British Monarchy,
    which obstinately continues illegally to occupy Ireland
    militarily and to maintain a colony there in blatant
    violation of the United Nations' seminal Decolonization
    Resolution of 1960. Furthermore, this Extradition Treaty
    with the British Monarchy must stand alone and apart from
    all other modern U.S. extradition treaties precisely
    because we Americans fought a bitter Revolutionary War
    against the British Monarchy to found this Republic. We
    Americans did not fight a Revolutionary War against any
    other state in the world. So it is axiomatic that this
    proposed Treaty with the British Monarchy must be quite
    carefully distinguished from all of our extradition
    treaties with every other country in the world -- and
    rejected!


    Conclusion

    For all these reasons the Senate Foreign Relations
    Committee must reject this Treaty outright. There is no way
    this unconstitutional and illegal treaty can be salvaged by
    attaching any package of amendments, reservations,
    declarations, or understandings. The currently existing
    bilateral and multilateral extradition treaty regime
    between the United States and the British Monarchy is more
    than sufficient to secure the extradition of alleged
    terrorists. This proposed Treaty will only secure and
    guarantee the persecution of Irish American Citizens,
    Voters, and Taxpayers by the British Monarchy.

    Thank you.

    Respectfully submitted by,

    Francis A. Boyle
    Professor of law
    Board of Directors,
    Amnesty International USA (1988-92)
    4 March 2004 Memorandum
    4 Asian Y.B. Int'l l. 25-46 (1995)

    Law Building
    504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.
    Champaign, IL 61820 USA
    217-333-7954 (voice)
    217-244-1478 (fax)
    fboyle@law.uiuc.edu
    (personal comments onl
    "The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood."
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

  2. #2
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    Seabird
    Extraditing people to Britain is OK.
    Britain is a democracy where the rule of law applies.
    The vast vast majority of Irish people convicted by British courts wereprobably guilty of the offences that they were accused of.
    Stick to the injun stuff.
    grrrrr

  3. #3
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    It would be a little easier on the ear if the US wasn't shipping citizens of other countries off to torture chambers in the ex-Soviet countries.

    Mind you, I hear the Queen loves that stuff.

    Reference to the UK as "the British Monarchy" is ridiculous in this day and age.
    Never let the best be the enemy of the good.

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    High Court judges in London recently ruled that the US authorities should be allowed to extradite three former NatWest investment bankers to face Enron-related fraud charges. Charles Clarke, home secretary, and a magistrates court had agreed to their extradition under the 2003 US/UK treaty which has yet to be ratified by Washington. This aspect alone has made the treaty controversial - as has its increasing use to target alleged white-collar crime.

    The treaty has raised legal concerns because it removes the need for the US to establish a prima facie case to secure extradition. British requests to the US, by contrast, must still show "probable cause". Yet although the UK has signed the new treaty, ratification has been delayed in the US over fears that even this tougher hurdle would deny Americans due process.

    From the FT:

    Why has the case of the NatWest three attracted so much attention in the City?

    The case has highlighted the increasing determination of the authorities in the States to use "the long arm of US law" to make overseas executives face charges in the US for alleged offences such as financial crime, fraud or price-fixing.

    Does that mean my potential risks have increased if my company does business in the US?It does. As Mark Harding, chairman of the GC100 group of general counsel, said: "It is not safe for the board of any company, if it has dealings with the US, to assume it is immune." Although changes to Britain's extradition regime were interpreted as a response to terrorism, the law is being actively used by the US to tackle alleged white-collar criminals.
    Believe those who search for truth. Doubt those who claim to have found it -André Gide (1869-1951) Nobel Laureate 1947

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelHennigan
    Does that mean my potential risks have increased if my company does business in the US?It does. As Mark Harding, chairman of the GC100 group of general counsel, said: "It is not safe for the board of any company, if it has dealings with the US, to assume it is immune." Although changes to Britain's extradition regime were interpreted as a response to terrorism, the law is being actively used by the US to tackle alleged white-collar criminals.
    Which is a strong argument against the Treaty, and almost completely the reverse of Seabird's worries. On the other hand, if you choose to do business with the US, why should you be immune from their laws?
    Never let the best be the enemy of the good.

  6. #6
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    Isn't Francis A Boyle something of a fruit and nut case :

    I believe Seabird, you defended this completely ludicrous site:

    www.irishholocaust.org

    on the grounds that Boyle had had this material included in the teaching of history in some unfortunate and misguided American state, and that it must all be true because of Boyle's extensive qualifications.

    Isn't Boyle, an apologist for Ghaddaffi, the favoured lawyer of cranks in the pursuit of the most absurd and fatuous of causes :

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Boyle

    I was fascinated to learn of his opposition to a St Paddy's Day pub crawl in the University of Illinois, on the grounds that this was insulting to 'persons of Irish origin'.

    Seabird, is Boyle an ethnic cleanser such as yourself, does he, despite his opposition to ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia, see the expulsion of the Unionist community as the all-embracing solution to Ireland's ills and woes :

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    In addition, this proposed Treaty wipes out a number of
    constitutional and procedural safeguards. It eliminates any
    statue of limitations, unconstitutionally eliminates the
    need for any showing of probable cause, permits
    unconstitutional indefinite preventive detention, applies
    retroactively to offenses allegedly committed before the
    Treaty's ratification, eliminates the time-honored Rule of
    Specialty in all but name, allows for the unconstitutional
    seizure of assets, and permits extradition under Article
    2(4) for conduct that is perfectly lawful in the United
    States. This Treaty retroactively criminalizes perfectly
    lawful conduct in violation of the constitutional
    prohibition on Ex Post Facto laws set forth in Article I,
    Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution as well as the basic
    principles of public international law and human rights and
    jus cogens known as nullum crimen sine lege, nulla poena
    sine lege - no crime without law, no punishment without
    law. Under this Treaty, the heirs of George Washington
    could have their assets seized as proceeds of a criminal
    terrorist conspiracy.

    Most outrageously, responsibility for determining whether a
    prosecution is politically motivated is transferred from
    the U.S. Federal Courts to the executive branch of
    government. This means that instead of having your day in
    court, before a neutral Federal Judge, you will be required
    to rely on the not-so-tender mercies of the Department of
    State, which historically has always been soundly
    Anglophile, pro-British, anti-Irish, and against Irish
    Americans and Irish America. There are now over twenty
    million Irish American Citizens, Voters, and Taxpayers, and
    we all especially like to vote. These and the several other
    court-stripping provisions of this proposed Treaty are
    unconstitutional under Article III of the United States
    Constitution.
    These are the two area's that concern most Americans with the proposed treaty. If this treaty is signed, The State Department can use it as a basis for other treaties.



    Zhirkov

    You missed the point, no American or citizen of any country should be extradited without facing a judge in their own country. Professor Boyle is a well respected expert on International Law and his arguements are legally sound.

    John
    "I disapprove of what you are saying, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Voltaire

  8. #8
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    Zhirkov,

    Stick to the injun stuff.
    Well indeed explain to me what is 'injun' stuff. That is a very racist remark. Shame on you for your choice in descriptives when referring to America's First People. You are slithering slime!

    I am an Irish American, so your post makes no sense but then your existence within this universe literally makes no sense.

    ibis,

    Quote Originally Posted by ibis
    It would be a little easier on the ear if the US wasn't shipping citizens of other countries off to torture chambers in the ex-Soviet countries.
    You are very right but it should not stop people from voicing their concerns about this treaty. It is truly a scarey issue and targeted to stop IA's from contributing to SF's campaign. I am not talking monetary but the overall contributions we as a collective group make.

    It is would be sad if people of liked minds allowed this to proceed without placing opposition before the Senate because of a distaste for our leaders on hand. Would that not be ludicrous? Isn't that the same as cutting your nose off to spite your face?

    The UK is a "British Monarch" unless God did not save the Queen nor her heirs from a tragedy since I posted last! She is still on the throne is she not? You cannot change the spots on leopards back!
    :wink:
    "The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood."
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

  9. #9
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    Pogon

    Isn't Francis A Boyle something of a fruit and nut case
    You really need to do research before you post. Francis Boyle is a respected Professor of LAw at the University of Illinois. he has authored hundreds of papers on International Law and is recognized around the world as an expert in the field. He is also on the Board of Directors of Amnesty International. Regardless of what you think of him Pogon, or his opinions, he does have extensive qualifications. And those can not be attacked. By the way the University of Illinois is not "unfortunate and misguided American state" of course it can't comopare to the schools you went to. what did you say they were?
    "I disapprove of what you are saying, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Voltaire

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibis
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelHennigan
    Does that mean my potential risks have increased if my company does business in the US?It does. As Mark Harding, chairman of the GC100 group of general counsel, said: "It is not safe for the board of any company, if it has dealings with the US, to assume it is immune." Although changes to Britain's extradition regime were interpreted as a response to terrorism, the law is being actively used by the US to tackle alleged white-collar criminals.
    Which is a strong argument against the Treaty, and almost completely the reverse of Seabird's worries. On the other hand, if you choose to do business with the US, why should you be immune from their laws?
    European business is simply worried because the US is much harsher in cracking down on white-collar crime.

    Last year accounting firm KPMG had to pay a fine of almost $500 million dollars in respect of selling fraudulent tax avoidance schemes and up to 20 ex-partners and advisers have been indicted.

    If we had a similar approach here, virtually every tax adviser would be in the clink
    Believe those who search for truth. Doubt those who claim to have found it -André Gide (1869-1951) Nobel Laureate 1947

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