Israeli soldiers' "cold blooded murder" of Gaza's civilians

[cactusflower]

Israel boosted Hamas when it suited, to displace Fatah. Hamas won the elections. If Israel and the US are so opposed to jihadism, how come they have on so many occasions used them to do their dirty work?

Israeli soldiers have been giving evidence of war crimes and anti-Arab racism.

Millions of people saw the live footage of Gaza, Yanshuf: we don't need to read the reports.

[loaded32]

I'll answer that one.

Yes. He was lying through his teeth. He might have believed it - because he wanted to beleive it. But it was still lying, a falsehood of a heinous nature for someone supposedly doing humanitarian work under the auspices of the UN.

OK, so you believe he made it all up and the images were "staged". (finding it hard here to take this seriously but anyway) ....So on what basis do you believe this? Where is your proof? Do you believe that Qana 1996 was also "staged" and a figment of someones imagination???

[FakeViking]

OK, so you believe he made it all up and the images were "staged". (finding it hard here to take this seriously but anyway) ....So on what basis do you believe this? Where is your proof? Do you believe that Qana 1996 was also "staged" and a figment of someones imagination???

What does the Embassy team think of John Ging's extremely harsh criticism of Hamas?

[loaded32]

Originally Posted by yanshuf :
it's like Ha'aretz. When I want to know what the Arabs say I read Ha'aretz, cause it's considered a fifth column in Israel. The Guardian's approach to the Arab Israeli conflict is one-sided and subjected to some unethoical journalistic work, and altogether it shouts far left and Anti-Israel bias (covering Antisemitism, of course).

Here we go again, I was waiting for it to be said - "Anti semitism" and Yanshuf you didnt dissapoint! I will give you the benefit of the doubt in this instance that perhaps you are not well read enough to know that their are Christian,Muslim and Jewish Semites! and that is not hearsay or opinion like a lot of what has been posted in this thread, but is absolute fact!
The Anti Semetism accusation that is constantly rolled out is one of the biggest falseties ever used and unfortunatley a lot of people on both sides are not aware of the facts surrounding semitism, so they are not in a position to correct the use of this term in the manner it has been used.

Tip of the day Yanshuf - understanding semitism.

[turdsl]

The use of white phosphorus in built up areas was a war crime 1400 people, 300 of them children will be a stain on the character of Israel for generations to come,

[draiocht23]

draiocht:
Even if those organisations have a specific agenda, which I did not disregard when I gave their links to you, their reports on the failures of AI and HRW and other organisations (like Betselem) to be fair and the content itself of the reports that elaborate in details those failures, are fair, and they deal with those aspects in the said organisations that were taken as granted.

In short, the NGO monitor reveals, like it or not, the shortcomings in AI's and HRW's and other org. investigations, and shows they have agendas.

To summarise - the organisations with an Israeli bias compile fair and balanced reports; while the organisations, that you deem to have an anti-Israeli bias, compile reports full of partial propaganda.

Doesn't sound like much of an argument.

I, if you forgot or didn't know, an Israeli living in Israel, so this commission is non of my business, though I would certainly do my best to complain about them here.

I didn't know you you lived in Israel. It doesn't make any difference though. You don't have to be resident in the UK to make a complaint - the Guardian is freely available on the web.

One would image that if you are to lambaste the Guardian, and accuse its journalists of unethical bias, on this site you would also be eager to bring this matter to the attention of the PCC in the UK. After all, this story created international headlines and would have harmed the reputation of the IDF.

It does this to pay lip service to the claims it's biased. As you probably figured it out, biased media is judged by an accumulative criterion, that is not by a report here and there, but by many reports in a specific period.

Now you just have to count the articles for and against Israel and make the calculations.

Ok. So the fact that the paper prints stories that represent the Israeli point of view merely serves to underscore the anti-Israeli bias of the paper generally.

Again, pretty unconvincing.

what kind of rounds? If they shoot to kill, then it's a murderous intention, if it's not real bullets, it's a matter of policy, that should be checked, but each case should be checked for its own.

Firing live bullets into a large crowd of kids seems like a pretty definite shoot to kill policy to me.

Good. Though I believe you dislike Hamas indoctrination of children, it never really showed here, cause the only threads you and your coleagues post are against Israel.

The children, as far as I see it, could have had much better lives, if Hamas instead of orchestrating a war, had organised new dwelings, invest in health and education and build them new lives, but that won't happen, even now.

When people have nothing - no money, no job, no hope - they tend to turn to religion and radicalism. The grooming of children by Hamas is despicable but Israel's blockade of Gaza, and its disproportionate military attacks, make Hamas' job much easier.

It seems rather pointless to invest in new buildings, health and education when, at any moment, any new infrastructure can be decimated by Israel - as happened in Gaza when the university was bombed, roads destroyed and schools and residential areas flattened.

Children who have a chance of a better life would be less likely to become hate-filled suicide bombers when they grow up. Gaza is full of poverty, unemployment and despair - this remains the biggest threat to Israel.

[Geckko]

OK, so you believe he made it all up and the images were "staged". (finding it hard here to take this seriously but anyway) ....So on what basis do you believe this? Where is your proof? Do you believe that Qana 1996 was also "staged" and a figment of someones imagination???

The question was posed. "Did John Ging lie?"

John Ging is a lier:

UN disseminates lies and a willing media swallows them | The Australian

[L'Chaim]

Journalists assess the risk and act accordingly. No other "democracy" would ever put a similar ban on journalists who were covering a conflict. Are you suggesting that countries should ban journalists from covering important stories, in dangerous regions, for their own safety?

Hamas has never killed a journalist or aid worker in Gaza - not in my memory anyway - although they have kidnapped both, most recently a BBC journo who was held for four months.

Basically, the ban on journalists means that you will never be convinced by any subsequent reports on the 22-day war - although, it's unlikely you ever would concede any wrong doing by the IDF . Eye witness accounts from Palestinians, UN workers, aid workers, not to mention the use of white phosphorus - none of this "stands up" in your estimation.

But in many conflicts journalists are not allowed into the front line. Israel aren't the only country to do this. And as I said earlier, Egypt also has a border with Gaza and Egypt weren't allowing journalists into Gaza through their border. However journalists have a responsibility to do their jobs correctly and in the past, when it came to Israeli wars, they didn't, so they only have themselves to blame when Israel won't accommodate them.

Lessons were learned from the war with hezbollah by the Israelis. There journalists reported in a dreadful way. Reuters had to dismiss one of their journalists for doctoring photographs. The same journalist sent out reports from Qana which said Israel bombed a house full of people. It turned out later that this house was a weapons and ammo dump and a Hezbollah doctor with access to a local mortuary was bringing dead bodies from different scenes to increase the body count. The same bodies were being moved from place to place to make it look like the Israelis were deliberately targeting civilian homes and not legitimate targets. It turned out that Hezbollah gunmen were leading reporters to specific areas that Hezbollah had 'dressed' to give the impression that they wanted the world to see. When it came to Hezbollah, journalists were shown what to report and the same journalists quite willingly went along with it. And the same thing would have happened in Gaza. Hamas would have no problem deciding what the journalists were to see and what they were to report on and the journalists would either go along with it or run the risk of being kidnapped (like dozens of them were in the past). So lessons were learned from the war with hezbollah and the same thing was not going to be allowed to happen in Gaza. And in case you don't remember, there were plenty of journalists in Gaza at the time of the war. Every news programme and newspaper carried up to date reports and headlines every single day of the war.

[Geckko]

I'm not shifting ground at all - if Israel was to conduct an independent investigation which exonerated the IDF's conduct in Gaza than maybe I, and many more, would be more inclined to believe Ehud Barak's claim that it's "the most moral army in the world".

I suppose you have no problem with the use of white phosphorus, in densely populated areas, either?

You must be a farmer, given the rate ate which you are able to churn out these straw men. You state something stupid and OT like that and I simply retort something like "..and I suppose you support suicide bombing in densely populated areas???". Get's us nowhere, you see? Best we stick to the specific incidents you decided to bring to this forum.

Stick to your own thread topic. Is there any evidence that these "murders" you cited took place? Are there any eye witnesses or perpetrators, or forensic evidence? Are the any bodies?

You will go up in my estimation if you admit that in this instance you were too quick to perpetuate and promote what was nothing more than baseless rumour.

[FakeViking]

Did you manage to write all that yourself, or did the Embassy tea-ladies join in?