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About LinkBacks1300 killed 300 of them children thats evidence ,besides i ttake John Gings word , great shame on Israel
1300 killed 300 of them children thats evidence ,besides i ttake John Gings word , great shame on Israel
Originally Posted by yanshuf
Well Yanshuf, you make your pro-zionist, anti human rights agenda quite clear in here anyway, thats for sure.
As I have said in an earlier comment, your hugely biased posts are extremely patronising and I suggest that you show more respect to the countless decent, well read and educated Irish citizens who frequent this forum if not, perhaps you would refrain from posting your "played out" rhetoric on here. What has been reported by INDEPENDENT sources and all the carnage and devestation we have seen on our screens acts as clear proof of the Israeli war crimes. You talk about "wealth of proof"....wheres your wealth of proof to the contrarary then??
You started this thread and created its "colourful" title.
You supported two specific allegations against Israeli soldiers.
The evidence increasingly (and at this point most likely) points to these being wrong.
Will you, like the NYT, withdraw the your support for allegations made in the OP?
I was not supporting allegations - I was posting a valid news item which has been covered all over the planet.
Also, your assertion that the NYT has withdrawn its support is erroneous - the paper has merely reported that the IDF has refuted the claims and closed their brief investigation.
Strangely, the Israeli government is resisting calls for an independent investigation into the allegations.
Israel says claims over civilian killings 'exaggerated' - The Irish Times - Tue, Mar 31, 2009Israel used unprecedented force during the three-week operation, launched against Gaza's Hamas rulers last December to halt eight years of rocket attacks on Israeli border towns. After a week of aerial bombardments, the military launched a two-week ground offensive.
More than 1,400 Palestinians were killed, including more than 900 civilians, according to the Palestinian Center for Human Rights, which published a list of names of the dead. Israel has said the toll was lower, and the "vast majority" of the dead were militants. But it did not publish a list to support the assertion.
In announcing the findings yesterday, the army said the soldiers' testimonies "were purposely exaggerated and made extreme, in order to make a point" to those attending the closed session.
A joint statement signed by nine Israeli rights groups said the decision to close the investigation without bringing charges "only strengthens the need for the attorney general to allow for an independent nonpartisan investigative body to be established in order to look into all Israeli army activity" in Gaza.
Defence Minister Ehud Barak said the investigation showed that Israel possesses "the most moral army in the world."
However, Danny Zamir, the military prep school director who urged the inquiry, said it did not address other incidents that raise serious ethical questions, such as the wanton destruction of Palestinian homes.
The army still needs to deal with "the whole way that we and our comrades ... treated .. property, houses, holy books," he said, calling for better training in the military.
In a tour of Gaza last week, there was evidence of vandalism and destruction in Palestinian homes commandeered by the Israeli military. Graffiti in Hebrew was scrawled on walls, trash littered the floors and makeshift sniper holes were stuffed with cloth or plastic in several homes.
The case of a 33-year-old resident of the Gaza City neighborhood of Zeitoun bore some similarities to the soldiers' accounts. Abir Hijeh told journalists she was in a group of civilians that came under Israeli fire after soldiers yelled at them to turn around when they headed the wrong way after being expelled from their homes.
Her 2-year-old daughter and a 27-year-old neighbour were killed in the incident, which was confirmed by two area hospitals and a second witness.
he Israeli soldiers did not confirm the reports. it turns out the Israeli soldiers were only repeating gossip. They weren't even in the locations the events they spoke about were alleged to have happened. These soldiers weren't even interviewed by any of the newspapers that ran with the story.
The guardian story was also only based on hearsay and did not provide one shred of evidence.
The UN expert you say accuses Israel of war crimes wasn't even in Gaza at the time. He had been refused entry into Israel and Gaza before the Israeli operation. And regarding the use of white phosphorous; Israel says its use of smoke shells was in accordance with International law and the claim that smoke shells were used to threaten the civilian population in Gaza is baseless. One thing's for sure though; the Palestinians militants' use of rockets to target Israeli civilians is a violation of International humanitarian law and human rights investigators have said that Palestinian militant groups also operated from civilain areas, which is also a violation of international law. Human Rights Watch have said that "the testimony and forensic evidence clearly shows that hamas endangered the civilain population with its tactics".
You just seem to accept all these accusations against Israel without any corroboration. There is no evidence. There are only accusations with no proof whatsoever to back it up.
Just out of curiousity, what kind of evidence would it take to convince you?
Also, if Israel is so interested in disproving these claims why were independent journalists refused entry to Gaza during the conflict?
He is a shill, just the same as that new pleb Geckko. Their only purpose on these forums is to side track debate and propagate the "anti-Isreali" lie.
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Evidence that would 'stand up'. Accusations are not evidence.
You don't seem to remember, or you convienently forget, that in the past hamas has kidnapped aid workers and journalists in Gaza. Egypt also refused to let journalists in through their borders.
Journalists assess the risk and act accordingly. No other "democracy" would ever put a similar ban on journalists who were covering a conflict. Are you suggesting that countries should ban journalists from covering important stories, in dangerous regions, for their own safety?
Hamas has never killed a journalist or aid worker in Gaza - not in my memory anyway - although they have kidnapped both, most recently a BBC journo who was held for four months.
Basically, the ban on journalists means that you will never be convinced by any subsequent reports on the 22-day war - although, it's unlikely you ever would concede any wrong doing by the IDF . Eye witness accounts from Palestinians, UN workers, aid workers, not to mention the use of white phosphorus - none of this "stands up" in your estimation.
Straight Yes/No question for you then - Are you saying that John Ging, head of the UN Relief Agency, is lying through his teeth and making up the Israeli attack on his compound and that the images transmitted at the time were somehow "staged" ?
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