Originally Posted by L'Chaim
2 points in relation to your above misguided post. 1 - What comes of the "Israeli investigations into civilian murders" ? 2 - On the basis of what you have said above, would you not then concur that the Israeli administration is essentially a "terrorist" organisation! ?
Rather I am referring to the fact that the MSM is now pretty much uniformly backing down from this story and reporting instead that neither of these events raise din the OP actually occurred.
They were urban myths and the original reports were of hearsay based on rumour.
But apparently on this forum, once some Useful Idiot makes a claim it is then true forever more regardless of whethe rit is fact or not.
Or are you going to maintain that they did occur (just that there is no evidence to have survived the great conspiratorial cover up), or that it doesn't matter whether they occurred or not (from some bizarre logic).
Detesting, as you do, "urban myths" and nebulous claims - any chance you'd practice what you preach and provide some impartial corroboration to support your assertion that these stories are fake?
The original stories appeared in every major, respected, print and broadcast media on the planet. I'm sure the same news organisations will be covering this bombshell - informing their readers/viewers that the stories were "hearsay based on rumour".
I look forward to eating my hat.
Do you want fries with that?
The New York Times
I think there is enough coming out now to confirm that none of these claims were made by anyone who did it, anyone who saw it, or anyone who ordered it. Simply someone who heard someone say that someone had said blah blah.officers familiar with the investigation say that those who spoke of the killing of the mother and her children did not witness it and that it almost certainly did not occur. Warning shots were fired near the family but not at it, the officers said, and a rumor spread among the troops of an improper shooting.
The second killing may also not have occurred, they said, although a similar event was recounted by Col. Herzl Halevy in January in the newspaper Yediot Aharonot.
I seem to recall asking for impartial evidence - Israel says it ain't so, doesn't really cut it.
According to the NY Times article you quoted -
My hat remains off the menu.Officers are stepping forward, some at the urging of the top command, others on their own, offering numerous accounts of having held their fire out of concern for civilians, helping Palestinians in need and punishing improper soldier behavior.
“I’m not saying that nothing bad happened,” Bentzi Gruber, a colonel in the reserves and deputy commander of the armored division, said in an interview. “I heard about cases where people shot where they shouldn’t have shot and destroyed houses where they shouldn’t have destroyed houses. But the proportion and effort and directions we gave to our soldiers were entirely in the opposite direction.”
Also, I look forward to the results of the completely impartial Israeli investigation into allegations of war crimes committed by its own soldiers.
The problem for Geckko and his likeminded mates up at the Embassy is that nobody believes your denials any more.
Funny no one stepped forward to help the two toddlers left to starve almost to the point of death beside the shattered bodies of their mothers.
The tee shirts ordered by ChildKillers Inc after their Gaza bloodfest show that Bentzi's efforts were all in vain. Maybe he should take a two week holiday in Spain or Belgium if he is so convinced that his forces did not committ crimes against humanity.
Oh quite a lot comes out of these investigations actually. Only last week a soldier in IDF was thrown out of the army for for shooting a Palestinian woman in the leg by mistake during the recent conflict. Two soldiers were jailed and demoted last week for accepting bribes to allow Palestinians from the West bank into Israel. Now those were only in the last week or so. Israel investigates and if there's evidence of wrong doing they act and punish those who did wrong. And Israel are investigating claims made against its army in the recent conflict. When do you ever hear of Palestinian religious or political leaders investigating attacks by Palestinians against Israelis or condemning attacks by Palestinians on Israeli civilians? You don't and you never will. If Israel builds a house in East Jerusalem you'll hear Palestinian leaders saying "This will affect the peace talks". When over a dozen Jewish religious students were killed the next week in Jerusalem the same Palestinian leaders said "This must not effect the peace talks".
@draiocht23, your original post was accusations. That's all they were. The soldiers alleged comments came from comments supposedly made during a conversation. They were never interviewed by any journalist. The Palestinain groups in Gaza have as yet not been able to show any evidence that these things actually took place. The UN, who were also in Gaza at the time, have not been able to supply any evidence either. No evidence whatsoever and yet you are asking that people prove none of this happened? You're looking for impartial evidence that this never happened (how can anyone prove such a thing?) and yet you don't seem to insist on anything like "impartial evidence" to back up your original post. Odd that! When it comes to Israel, you're just one of these people that will accept any accusations without corroboration, and will accept them as fact.
The problem with you, outside the embassy, is that you have committed yourselves to promoting Hamas by all means. That means that whatever they do they are right, as your reluctance to discuss their actions (that are actually in violation of the Geneva whatever) does point to.The problem for Geckko and his likeminded mates up at the Embassy is that nobody believes your denials any more.
Funny no one stepped forward to help the two toddlers left to starve almost to the point of death beside the shattered bodies of their mothers.
The tee shirts ordered by ChildKillers Inc after their Gaza bloodfest show that Bentzi's efforts were all in vain. Maybe he should take a two week holiday in Spain or Belgium if he is so convinced that his forces did not committ crimes against humanity.
BTW when you, Kintama, say, and I quote: "nobody believes your denials any more", you sound like a representative of the Trotzkian faction of the Irish Left, so do be careful with generic pronouns, ah!
Bíonn dhá insint ar scéal!
The problem for Israel is that they themselves promoted Hamas as the good guys when the IDF invaded and a very large no of people including over 300 children were killed. It is a stain that will remain on the character of Israel.
It's remarkable how quickly certain sections of the populance believe every single piece of bullsh*t about the IDF but of course none of them are anti Semitic - indeed some of their best friends are Jews!
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