Geert Wilders leads in the polls in the Netherlands and other observations

[Defeated Romanticist]

The persecution on Geert Wilders may end up blowing up in his oppressors face. The controversial Dutch politician has become a martyr for free speech after his exclusion from Britain in recent times. The poll suggests his freedom party would win 27 seats out of 150 and would be the key player in a putative coalition.

Meanwhile, the discrimination which fuels movements like Mr Wilders' party was exemplified in Scotland recently where the police said they would give Muslims a higher priority than "white males" in case their feelings get hurt and further evidence that race is supplanting economic condition as the Marxist surrogate came when one of those obnoxious Labour ministers confirmed that people were going to be treated differently because of their race(I think the shorthand is racist) in this time of economic distress.

God love and protect the Daily Mail.

Wilders story.

I am tempted to posit one of Newton's laws of motion here. Along the lines of the more insufferable Marxist drivel poured upon a people, the more they will turn to a direct antidote. Can we be surprised that it is those countries which practise the repressive tolerance of Marcuse, are now the one's in most open revolt against it.

[FutureTaoiseach]

It reflects a growing popular revolt in Western Europe against the tyranny of Political-Correctness and the totalitarian way it tries to silence debate on certain topics - especially on immigration but also on the separate (but linked) topic of multiculturalism vs integration.

[Defeated Romanticist]

One gets the sense of a very brittle concensus on these issues among those who have either been asked or who are listened to. But reality is more complicated. I fear the future.

[dsmythy]

Dutch polls since August 2008. The other parties on the rise along with Wilder's PVV appear to be the Socialist party and what is probably the equivalent of the UK Liberal Democrats (d66). Socialists are still below their recent high acheived in September. The PVV are in new territory for them..

[locke]

D66 are rising to their natural level of support having collapsed when they continued to prop up the previous government.

The Socialist Party's rise can be put down to their opposition to welfare reform. The classic, oppose but don't say how it can be paid for line.

Personally, I think the rise of the PVV and the earlier LPF is because of a deep seated unhappiness among the Dutch people at the moment. The PVV offers immigration as an easy target.

Having lived there for several years, I think the reason for the unhappiness is because the government interferes in people's lives too much. People who don't know The Netherlands are sometimes surprised by this as they have an image of a tolerant society. But yet, you need permission to do almost anything.

In addition to this, the civil service seems to adopt a "we know best" attitude and all the main political parties just row in behind it because they're baffled by the statistics. So, the country is dominated by technocrats rather than people who are providing direction. The PVV makes an attempt at this, but I'm not sure it's the direction The Netherlands needs.

There is an important distinction between the LPF and the PVV though. The LPF was not explicitly racist. Racists may well have been attracted to it, but race didn't drive its agenda. The PVV is an explicitly racist party, which has no qualms about stignatising minorities if it helps them get what they want, and anyone celebrating its rise may as well be celebrating the rise of the BNP.

[Big Bobo]

The persecution on Geert Wilders may end up blowing up in his oppressors face. The controversial Dutch politician has become a martyr for free speech after his exclusion from Britain in recent times. The poll suggests his freedom party would win 27 seats out of 150 and would be the key player in a putative coalition.

Meanwhile, the discrimination which fuels movements like Mr Wilders' party was exemplified in Scotland recently where the police said they would give Muslims a higher priority than "white males" in case their feelings get hurt and further evidence that race is supplanting economic condition as the Marxist surrogate came when one of those obnoxious Labour ministers confirmed that people were going to be treated differently because of their race(I think the shorthand is racist) in this time of economic distress.

God love and protect the Daily Mail.

Wilders story.

I am tempted to posit one of Newton's laws of motion here. Along the lines of the more insufferable Marxist drivel poured upon a people, the more they will turn to a direct antidote. Can we be surprised that it is those countries which practise the repressive tolerance of Marcuse, are now the one's in most open revolt against it.

I don't think it's possible to take anyone seriously if they say things like "God love and protect the daily mail"

[thunderball]

Having lived there for several years, I think the reason for the unhappiness is because the government interferes in people's lives too much. People who don't know The Netherlands are sometimes surprised by this as they have an image of a tolerant society. But yet, you need permission to do almost anything.

In addition to this, the civil service seems to adopt a "we know best" attitude and all the main political parties just row in behind it because they're baffled by the statistics. So, the country is dominated by technocrats rather than people who are providing direction. The PVV makes an attempt at this, but I'm not sure it's the direction The Netherlands needs.

The place is well run, trains on time. Plenty of roads, traffice seems to move most of the time (when I'm there). They don't have the same mess we have. Steeets are empty of litter. Would you like to go back ?

[Defeated Romanticist]

The place is well run, trains on time. Plenty of roads, traffice seems to move most of the time (when I'm there). They don't have the same mess we have. Steeets are empty of litter. Would you like to go back ?

I tend to find that the "trains running on time" has nothing to do with the politics. Some cultures such as ours have a idea of "good enough" rather than as good as can be. The good nough cultures have tardy trains.

[locke]

The place is well run, trains on time. Plenty of roads, traffice seems to move most of the time (when I'm there). They don't have the same mess we have. Steeets are empty of litter. Would you like to go back ?

Streets are empty of litter? You haven't seen Rotterdam at the end of a shopping day then. They do seem to clear up the mess a lot more quickly though.

Would I like to go back?

No

Primarily because life just became a bureaucratic hassle. Like I said, you need permission for everything, even what you plant in your own garden. I also remember getting letters in the post from the local authority along the lines of " We need to install a new water meter. Be in your flat between 9am and 12 am on October 16th to let us do it. If the new meter isn't installed, your water will be cut off until it is". And you'd get that with three days notice.

I'm not some mad Libertarian and I think Ireland could do with a bit more state power, but The Netherlands took it to an extreme that I couldn't handle. A Polish colleague claimed that even Poland in Soviet times wasn't that bad!

[Eorna]

Streets are empty of litter? You haven't seen Rotterdam at the end of a shopping day then. They do seem to clear up the mess a lot more quickly though.

Would I like to go back?

No

Primarily because life just became a bureaucratic hassle. Like I said, you need permission for everything, even what you plant in your own garden. I also remember getting letters in the post from the local authority along the lines of " We need to install a new water meter. Be in your flat between 9am and 12 am on October 16th to let us do it. If the new meter isn't installed, your water will be cut off until it is". And you'd get that with three days notice.

I'm not some mad Libertarian and I think Ireland could do with a bit more state power, but The Netherlands took it to an extreme that I couldn't handle. A Polish colleague claimed that even Poland in Soviet times wasn't that bad!

Having lived there myself I have to agree with the above. The Netherlands is a very bureaucratic society, it is very efficient in some regards, but very inefficient in governance. It is impossible to get a meal in a restaurant, without waiting an hour and a half, and then only with service that would make the most ignorant waiter in Ireland seem like the Dalai Lama. It is also, outside of central Amsterdam, probably one of the most boring countries in Europe. The Dutch however like it that way it works for them. That is their right, it is their country and we have to respect that. I think that the PVV, are growing in Holland because the Dutch are starting to realize that Dutch society in another 20 years will not exist in the broadly tolerant vein that we know of. Dutch society is being radically changed by immigration, and very little of it is for the better. I think that for a lot of Holland that it is already too late. I wish Geert the best of luck in the future polls.