Israeli election results

[khavakoz]

Does anyone else find it tiresome to be unable to discuss middle-east affairs on an Irish website without having one topic Israelis descending on it every time? Do they have some software which alerts them to the mention of keywords on any thread anywhere else in the world? Are they paid for this constant intervention or do they do it for the passion of their "cause" I wonder? They're like Muj only there is more of them!

FFS - its a thread about the Israeli election results. There is no conspiracy.

[yanshuf]

Does anyone else find it tiresome to be unable to discuss middle-east affairs on an Irish website without having one topic Israelis descending on it every time? Do they have some software which alerts them to the mention of keywords on any thread anywhere else in the world? Are they paid for this constant intervention or do they do it for the passion of their "cause" I wonder? They're like Muj only there is more of them!

You got it all wrong. It's not middle-east affairs, it's anti-Israel rant threads. And you've got lots and lots of them, you don't need new ones!

As for the tiresom thing, try kiwi with humus.

[onlyasking]

Objecteev

Apologies for the delay in responding. Life, birthdays, the romance of Valentine's day, kids sports events etc, all conspired to keep me from the joys of P.ie

Ahhh... let me respect your long post by replying in short.. maybe because it is partly tied to the election..

It’s entirely disingenuous to suggest that Israel’s policies re the Palestinians are somehow not “tied” to the topic of Israel’s elections. Nothing could be further from the truth, and that much is clear to anybody whose head is not in the sand.

I live in Israel and know it. You hate it, and its people, and don't know much about it. You think you do. You don't. That is quite clear.

Any disdain I feel for the state of Israel, such disdain being based on its actions and not on its people, pales in comparison when set alongside Israel’s disdain for the international “community”, for international law, and for anybody who dares question Israel’s iron fist. As for my “not knowing much” about Israel, a great many people who have never been to Germany, and who have never known well any German people, have developed, with a little assistance from others, strong opinions about German history. The vast majority of people in this category have views greatly conforming to those of the people of Israel. I’d say there are a few holocaust-deniers in Germany who’d assert that those critics of Nazi-Germany “don’t know much about it”. My point is this: in the 21st century one doesn’t need to be a resident of a particular state in order to have access to a large amount of information about the people and policies of that state. I can, and do, read the JP and Ha’aretz, along with other sources of detailed information from Israel.

My statements in this thread and others we’ve tangled on have been affirmed by the democratic expression of the Israeli people themselves. Yours have not.

I have very little patience for you. That is not the case with many others. Ask yourself why. The answer is that you are idiotic, argumentative and a troll in most cases when it comes to Israel and Jews. You need help.

Jeez, that hurts. The real reason you don’t like me is that I’ve called you out on a range of assertions you’ve made regarding Israel’s desire for a Palestinian state next door, and the desire, or lack of it, amongst the Israeli electorate for the removal of Jewish settlers from the lands the international “community” has earmarked for a Palestinian state.

I shouldn’t dignify with a response your attempt to go down the well-trodden path of ascribing anti-semitic motivation on the part of those with the temerity to question the misuse of Israel’s might. Let me state clearly that there have been a great many Jews who have contributed enormously to humanity across a range of human endeavour and culture, and millions of Jews who have suffered persecution over two thousand years, mainly at the hands of Christians. I accept Israel’s right to exist, but I also accept, unlike the majority of the people of Israel, the right of the Arabs of the former Mandate Palestine to retain their remaining lands to the west of the Jordan, and their right to exercise sovereignty over those lands.

Two states solution is the only viable option. This means that one state solution is not viable. Well.. maybe three states solution is viable, where west bank will be one state and the Gaza strip will be another. But what I mean is, that if anyone sees a solution, it is not in one state, where Israel annexes both territories. Is that clear? Do you content?

The two-state solution has not been viable beyond the realms of fantasy for many years, despite all the huff and puff about “roadmaps to peace” etc. Unless of course the argument is made that there can be a viable Palestinian state peppered with large population centres under the continuing control of another state, major military and logistical infrastructure linking all of these Jewish-only centres to Israel, and control of the borders and coastline of that state remaining, along with all the other aforementioned elements, in the control of another state. No sane person could argue that such a state is viable.

I read that you believe the settlements can be removed. This is where we are greatly at odds. Not only do I see logistical reasons why the settlements will never be relinquished, I see no desire at all amongst the vast majority of Israelis for such an outcome, an analysis affirmed recently by the expressed wishes of the Israeli electorate.

The Knesset didn't change yet. You do know that. right? Or are you talking about the old one still?

The political make-up of the Knesset has been altered significantly by the people of Israel. They have seen fit to move their legislature even further to the extreme nationalist position of Likud and Y’israel Beteinu. There is little point in denying this.

Anyway, your perception is twisted and your logic fails. If I was to adopt your logic, I would not be able to explain how in reality, Gaza was evacuated. So you need to do some soul searching. Settlements will continue to exist, most likely, UNTIL there is a peace agreement. ONLY then, they will almost ALL vanish. I don't really care if you agree with reality or not.

Your attempt to conflate Israel’s pull-out from Gaza with a possible pull-out from the West Bank was put to bed a couple of weeks ago. Let me refresh your memory.

Numbers of Jewish settlers on West Bank including East Jerusalem – 500,000
Number on West Bank beyond East Jerusalem – 300,000
Number of Jewish settlers in Gaza at the time of pull-out – 8,000

There are many individual Jewish settlements on the West Bank that completely dwarf the highest entire Jewish population of Gaza during Israel’s occupation of it. Furthermore, and this you know, Jews have an infinitely greater religious, cultural and emotional attachment to the lands of the West Bank than they ever did to Gaza.

Please stop the bullsh1t comparison of Gaza and the WB. It merely erodes your entire argument.

Now, to my dismay, settlements were used for a long time as a leverage in negotiations. Even Rabin used them as such (was sadly one of the bigger promoters of those). The fact is, still, that as in Gaza, so will the West bank be cleared from settlements. But that will ONLY happen if peace is part of the deal.
This government, the next one, the one after it.. they all have one very common denominator - the desire for peace. Not the desire to give and surrender, not the desire to be holier than god, the desire for peace. And when that is achieved, great compromises will be made by Israel. Part of it will be getting rid of the settlements.

See my argument above against the use of Gaza as a template for future moves on the WB.

My use of "you" was to a specific person. Maybe you have problem reading things in context? That wont surprise me.. Please remind me who THAT idiotic person was?

Your description of Israeli’s being “smarter, stronger and better looking than you” was not actually addressed to me. I daresay you had as much knowledge of that victim’s looks as you do of mine i.e. zilch.

All in good time. Israelis are not blind. They don't give gifts to people who kill them. When a peace agreement is signed, all settlers will vanish.

It’s convenient for the settlers, none of whom have the slightest intention to leave the WB, that they can engage in ongoing provocative actions against those whose land they’ve stolen, thereby perpetuating the cycle of violence that will preclude any “peace agreement”. Given that such agreement will bring about their demise as settlers, I don’t think we’ll be seeing any end to the cycle. Ever. Pretty smart, don’t you think?

As for east Jerusalem specifically, it is an annexed part of Israel. It is Israel. It is noone's but Israel. ANY Israeli there is where he/she is supposed to be. If you behave and ask nicely to go visit it or even live there if you are allowed, Israel will certainly allow you. As part of the Israeli law and standards, ANYONE can practice any religious beliefs.

Oh, that’s it then. It’s been annexed. The Jews of Israel have spoken, and we must obey. That’s a really neat way of doing things. I suppose the forefathers of Israel’s US allies did the same thing during their genocide against the Native Americans.

Only yesterday Israel announced that 425 acres of Palestinian land is to be annexed by Israel for the purposes of building thousands of new homes on the West Bank exclusively for Jews. More apartheid, more ethnic cleansing, and more laughing in the face of the USA, UK, EU, UN and the rest of the lamentable bunch of moral cowards who continue to bankroll and arm the state that thumbs its nose at them all.

Hitler was pretty keen on unilateral annexations too.

IF Israel ever agreed to make concessions about east Jerusalem, just be silent and thankful.

All must genuflect to the Israeli will, and be thankful they choose not to smote us.
Not that there’ll be concessions. So don’t even mention it, as it’s just another aspect on which you can stand supreme among humanity in your moral superiority. Another big finger to the UN, the USA, the UK and the rest of the international “community”, and what’ll happen to the special state for giving the finger? More sweet indulgence. No problem.

If you don't know of the difference between Zionism and religion or even between Right-wing and religion, I can't help you but tell you to go to school.

The elections have shown clearly that the majority of Israelis support Zionist policies. If you can enlighten me as to the meaning of Zionism, and how Israelis are in the main not Zionists, I’d be interested.

What do I care about your convictions? Some people believe Jews drink the blood of christian babies. I'm sure they feel vindicated all the time.

If you don’t care about my convictions then please save yourself the bother of replying to me. The rest of your statement is beyond the ridiculous.

Any other fake, antisematic or conspiracy theory notions and subjects you want me to pay attention to in this thread will fail.
I will give you a template response to all those silly points so you can 'apply' my 'dealing' with them all: You: "Israel [raped a virgin / killed a baby / took over the world / forced people to drink uranium /....]" Me: "get a life you [moron/idiot/...]".

I know full well that Jews were persecuted for centuries, and I know as a people they’ve yet to psychologically recover from the murder of six million of their people, despite what many of them think as their moral and intellectual superiority. That said, you’re doing yourself few favours with that unadulterated crap.

[dmc444]

Isreal B has jsut annouced it will support Likud

[Gile na Gile]

Well I would've thought overseeing the massacre of 1500 Palestinians would have tipped the scales for Livni but it's not to be ...

Netanyahu gets nod to form government - Yahoo! News UK

[yanshuf]

onlyasking:

It’s convenient for the settlers, none of whom have the slightest intention to leave the WB, that they can engage in ongoing provocative actions against those whose land they’ve stolen,

You hold the wrong persuasion that Judea and Samaria were stolen from the Arabs, as the international community - The League of Nations - designated this land for Jewish settlements back in the 1920's. When you ignore historical and religious aspects you get to this wrong persuasion that the Jews have no right to this land, but holding this same concept that you advocate, in 300 years from now you would definitely say the Jews are the native people of Judea and Samaria (ignoring the current fact that they really are).

Any disdain I feel for the state of Israel, such disdain being based on its actions and not on its people, pales in comparison when set alongside Israel’s disdain for the international “community”, for international law, and for anybody who dares question Israel’s iron fist.

If anyone, it's the Arab, Muslim, African and Aasian governments who express their disdain towards the international law, community or basic human rights!

You can count the number of dead in the Israeli-Arab conflict and compare it with conflicts from around the world, so you would take this conflict in its proportionality it merits!

How many died exactly in the conflicts in other areas of the world? There should be published a map of the world consisting of this information, and then we'll see how many Arabs Israel killed, and how many Arabs the Arabs killed, you'll be amazed!!!

Muslim hate muslims much more than the Jews.

Let me state clearly that there have been a great many Jews who have contributed enormously to humanity across a range of human endeavour and culture, and millions of Jews who have suffered persecution over two thousand years

Thank you, and let me state that I have Jewish friends.

Unless of course the argument is made that there can be a viable Palestinian state peppered with large population centres under the continuing control of another state,

The PA has a full control over so called "Palestinian" centres since the late 1990's, so your claim about this issue holds no water, salt, shoes whatever.