The Beginning of The End for Free Speech?

[setanta]

I'm fully aware that you were responding to Yanshuf's link. I was simply trying to get a better idea of where you're coming from by trying to ascertain you're views on certain aspects related to 'Fitna'. But seeing as you have no intention of watching the film I guess you won't be willing/able to answer my questions.

Personally I think it's quite unfortunate that you have no intention of watching the film as I was looking forward to a decent discussion on it.

Even if you're like me and you don't agree with Wilders' views and opinions, surely the film might still be worth a look in order to facilitate better discussion, no? Plus, it's only 15 minutes long, so you're not going to waste too much of your life watching it.

I take your point, AMAAD, but the film-producer is a nut job and well-known racist sh it-stirrer. Not really my cup of tea.

[A_man_about_a_dog]

I take your point, AMAAD, but the film-producer is a nut job and well-known racist sh it-stirrer. Not really my cup of tea.

Fair enough... But if you do ever happen to see it I'd be interested in hearing your views.

[Objecteev]

I take your point, AMAAD, but the film-producer is a nut job and well-known racist sh it-stirrer. Not really my cup of tea.

So watch this instead : [ame="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2668560761490749816"]Dispatches - Undercover Mosque[/ame]
Dispatches - Undercover Mosque Channel 4, UK: http://www.channel4.com/news/article...+mosque/158390

[lowtaxireland]

So watch this instead : Dispatches - Undercover Mosque
Dispatches - Undercover Mosque Channel 4, UK: http://www.channel4.com/news/article...+mosque/158390

I watched both of them. I fail to see how any of them can be accused of slandering anyone or promoting any thing other than a factual presentation of what extemists think and do. The cops in the UK actually tried to punish the makers of the Dispatches movie after some Muslims objected. Luckily nothing came of it- it would appear that British democracy is in some respects more robust than the Dutch variant.

[Objecteev]

I watched both of them. I fail to see how any of them can be accused of slandering anyone or promoting any thing other than a factual presentation of what extemists think and do. The cops in the UK actually tried to punish the makers of the Dispatches movie after some Muslims objected. Luckily nothing came of it- it would appear that British democracy is in some respects more robust than the Dutch variant.

I agree with you on both counts (no pun intended).
I actually think that both the UK police (trying to act against channel 4) and the Dutch police (calling for a trial on the above charges) acts are mainly a result of fear from local Islamic populations' reaction, a fear that is fed by actual changes that happen in their countries and the relation to the movies, the criticism and debate it produces and the friction that it evidently brings.. More so than about justice or law.
But since there is a court involved, the judgment of things is pending and I am interested in hearing what the courts will rule.

It is interesting (from a scientific/social perspective) to watch Europe's actions and reactions to the changes it is going through and to the Islamic expansion and migration within the continent.

[FutureTaoiseach]

I believe that Political-Islam at present has a different value system from the West with respect especially to women's rights, and that politicians should be entitled to make their views in that regard public in the name of free speech, but imho, Wilders may have stepped over the line in tarring an entire religion with fascism. For me, the underlying problem is religion itself. The Christian world was just as intolerant of dissent centuries ago in the era of Inquisition and the Penal Laws.

[CrapCountry.ie]

What i would like answered, is why is it what he done wrong, yet millions of muslims
can publicly and viciously critizise Christians, and promote violence and hatred towards
them, and go unpunished? What a fooked up world we live in.

[Trampas]

As to "Fitna", I haven't seen the film and don't intend watching it. The film producer has a track-record of far-right sh it-stirring and as such wouldn't be the sort of person whose material I'd be particularly interested in.

This thread is about freedom of speech, specifically that of Geert Wilders. If you do not intend to watch "Fitna" then go and grace some other thread with your self-satisfied musings. As for your own freedom of speech, it would help greatly were you to inform yourself at first hand rather than forming opinions on the basis of a putative "track-record".

[drkpower]

This thread is about freedom of speech, specifically that of Geert Wilders. If you do not intend to watch "Fitna" then go and grace some other thread with your self-satisfied musings. As for your own freedom of speech, it would help greatly were you to inform yourself at first hand rather than forming opinions on the basis of a putative "track-record".

In fairness, you dont have to see the film to debate the relative merits of freedom of expression vs censorship vs incitement to hatred etc....

[Objecteev]

In fairness, you dont have to see the film to debate the relative merits of freedom of expression vs censorship vs incitement to hatred etc....

Ye, maybe if the debate was purely theoretical.
But in this case its practical and specific, about one movie and one politician who made it.