The Beginning of The End for Free Speech?

[seabhcan]

Setanta:



and which of these do these Norwegian caricaturists break?


Institute for Global Jewish Affairs ? Global Antisemitism, Anti-Israelism, Jewish Studies

No one was arrested or procecuted for the Danish cartoons.

Yanshuf is Holocaust 'denial' illegal in Israel?

[yanshuf]

according to the Israeli law there's a prohibition on denial of the Holocaust, publicity of sympathy to the Nazis and their crimes.

[setanta]

Setanta:

and which of these do these Norwegian caricaturists break?

Institute for Global Jewish Affairs ? Global Antisemitism, Anti-Israelism, Jewish Studies

Some of that material is pretty awful, yanshuf, but the site also makes a number of connections between 1920/30/40's cartoon caricatures and modern representations which push the connection a touch too far.

However, much of the material you referenced would, to me, clearly constitute incitement to hatred and as such would fall outside of the protections of freedom of speech. I'd ask whether any attempt has been made in Norway to prosecute those people who have produced the cartoons which fall into this category?

On a personal note, although legal, I would find the comparisons of Israeli state brutality with the actions and ideology of the nazis to be a clear case of incipient or casual anti-semitism. It's for that reason, for example, that I found Aenghus Ó Snodaigh's comments last week at the Foreign Affairs Committee so objectionable.

[A_man_about_a_dog]

much of the material referenced would, to me, clearly constitute incitement to hatred and as such would fall outside of the protections of freedom of speech.

I assume you have seen Fitna, yes?

If so, would you not agree that the film itself (despite whatever personal views the film-maker might have) was simply a documentary highlighting the tendency which some Islamic preachers have for inciting hatred, the very same charge which Wilders finds himself facing?

Also, Wilders used direct quotations from the Koran as a basis for much of his film so it is not as if he made up quotes which portrayed a violent, combative aspect within Islam. He simply read the scriptures and reproduced what was written in them.

Wilders never promoted any hateful acts towards Islam or followers of the Islamic faith, he simply highlighted the fact that there is a school of thought within Islam which does incite hatred towards non-Muslims and which does in fact call for acts of violence towards non-Muslims. He has not said that these people need to be killed, injured or expelled. He simply highlighted what they were doing and showed how they use the Koran as a way of justifying these beliefs.

IMO, that is not inciting hatred and should therefore still be protected by the right to free speech.

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I realise that I'm probably giving off quite an anti-Islamic vibe, but anyone who has read my many posts on the Arab-Israeli conflicts, Palestine, Iran, Iraq, etc will know that this is most certainly not the case. I am simply making the above arguments in the hope that they will further our discussion on the freedom of speech.

[setanta]

I assume you have seen Fitna, yes?

You've picked up the wrong end of the stick, OMAAD. I was responding to the website that Yanshuf linked to concerning some objectionable cartoons produced in the Norwegian Press over the years.

As to "Fitna", I haven't seen the film and don't intend watching it. The film producer has a track-record of far-right sh it-stirring and as such wouldn't be the sort of person whose material I'd be particularly interested in.

[cathal maguidhir]

[QUOTE=Asi-Irish;1379341]In some countries, you can be gaoled for questioning the orthodox history of the Holocaust.
The Brutal Zionist Role in the Holocaust
Chaim Weizmann, the first president of Israel, made this Zionist policy very explicit:
The hopes of Europe’s six million Jews are centered on emigration. I was asked: “Can you bring six million Jews to Palestine?” I replied, “No.” ... From the depths of the tragedy I want to save ... young people [for Palestine]. The old ones will pass. They will bear their fate or they will not. They are dust, economic and moral dust in a cruel world ... Only the branch of the young shall survive. They have to accept it.

Chaim Weizmann reporting to the Zionist Congress in 1937 on his testimony before the Peel Commission in London, July 1937. Cited in Yahya, p. 55.

[seabhcan]

according to the Israeli law there's a prohibition on denial of the Holocaust, publicity of sympathy to the Nazis and their crimes.

Why is there a need for such a law in Israel. We don't have a law banning denial of the Famine, for example.

[A_man_about_a_dog]

You've picked up the wrong end of the stick, OMAAD. I was responding to the website that Yanshuf linked to concerning some objectionable cartoons produced in the Norwegian Press over the years.

As to "Fitna", I haven't seen the film and don't intend watching it. The film producer has a track-record of far-right sh it-stirring and as such wouldn't be the sort of person whose material I'd be particularly interested in.

I'm fully aware that you were responding to Yanshuf's link. I was simply trying to get a better idea of where you're coming from by trying to ascertain you're views on certain aspects related to 'Fitna'. But seeing as you have no intention of watching the film I guess you won't be willing/able to answer my questions.

Personally I think it's quite unfortunate that you have no intention of watching the film as I was looking forward to a decent discussion on it.

Even if you're like me and you don't agree with Wilders' views and opinions, surely the film might still be worth a look in order to facilitate better discussion, no? Plus, it's only 15 minutes long, so you're not going to waste too much of your life watching it.

[Objecteev]

No one was arrested or procecuted for the Danish cartoons.
Yanshuf is Holocaust 'denial' illegal in Israel?

Are you trying to get us to believe that if that cartoonist didn't walk into an average mosque and identified himself he would get harmed in most of them and most likely killed in many? That there was no open calls for violent against the man? Calls for his death?
You don't know your own religion and its modern practive? Or maybe you are trying to make us forget and ignore the truth about it?
The name Salman Rushdie rings a bell? Salman Rushdie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Sick people need a hospital and medication. What do sick religious conviction need?)

And as for holocaust.. do you deny it happened? Will we soon hear you talk the same talk of your leaders?

[Objecteev]

Why is there a need for such a law in Israel. We don't have a law banning denial of the Famine, for example.

How many deny it and use this denial to claim that Ireland has no right to exist?
And with all due respect, you don't see the difference anyway? I guess you don't So does Ahmadinijad I guess..