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About LinkBacksOnly as competitors on market of absolute truthOriginally Posted by The Field Marshal
Only as competitors on market of absolute truth
My god. What utter Bullsh*t.
First of all the Irish left never was nor ever will be "pro Israel" many on the left (not myself albeit) say there should be just a Palestinian state. Regardless who are the groups that go out and demostrate against the Israeli bombing of Gaza etc. Don't see FG,FF or the likes around.
Intolerance of those who don't accept our views? how so ? do the Irish left go around shooting people?
Contempt for established authority? yes? and? so what? were socialists you numbskull of course were going to have contempt for the capitalist system.
Hatred of Christianity? eh no. We do no hate any religion nor do we believe anyones right to religious practice should be hindered. But we are secular we believe in the separation of church and state. And after the reports such as the Murphy report you would be a fool to think otherwise to be honest.
Fanatical zeal for socialist principles? so by this logic enviormentalists are similar to nazis? religious people are similar to nazis? human rights activists are similar to nazis? give it up.
Prepared to distort the truth? you must be a nazi so since you doing exactly this.
contempt with the traditional family unit? the same unit that says women should stay at home men should be the breadwinner and leader of the household? eh ya. But also if you'd read a bit of history the family unit is anything but traditional it is a social construct brought on by capitalism/feudalism. We do not believe in the destruction of such unit but the opening of community into it.
cult of a strong leader? hmmm. All parties have a leader just our one doesn't take bribes, get pissed before interviews, finance the IRA, etc etc so we haven't voted him out.
We do not resort to violence to achieve our aims:
We don't believe that racist scum should be allowed organise to spread nothing but hate and break unity among races. And your still trying to align us with the nazis?
We support strikes? so.
We do not nor ever have we supported terrorist groups.
Listen, anyone can lay our any amount of points to compare something/someone to nazism. Hell the republicans done it with obama. Theres a reason their called the far RIGHT and not left. so just shut up please.
Freedom in capitalist society always remains about the same as it was in ancient Greek republics: Freedom for slave owners. For a Real Alternative :
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Thank you for rudely but not eloquently proving all my points.
Your intolerant behaviour in telling me to shut up should have been at the top of the list instead of the bottem.
Then again the left never could really distinguish between up & down
Closest thing to Nazi ideology is your own.
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We will see who is talking bulls*it
I did not include this item in my list of similiarities between the Irish left and the nazis
Saor Eire,INLA,Official Sinn Fein and Provisional Sinn Fein were ,and are, all left wing groups.
All of them,like the nazi,s went around shooting people.
I note the gratuitous personal derision and ad hominem contempt directed toward me.
Irrespective of that coggy actuallyadmits that like the nazi,s the left have contempt for established authority.
The fact that coggy identifies authority soley with the capitolist system indicates the confused and bewilderd nature of what passes for his/her thought processes.
There is no formal link in Ireland between church and state.There is no religion endowed or established by the Irish state.
Coggy call for something in addition to what already exists indicates a desire to undermine the Christian church.
The nazis pretended to respect religion whilst secretely working to undermine it, as do the Irish socialists
No.
Nazis were extreme and believed their ideology of itself was so powerful that it would triumph over everything,the ideology was everything to the exclusion of practical politics.
The Irish left are exactly like that.
What truths have I distorted?
Coggy fails in usuall nazi/left wing style to point out where.
These are common smear tactics used by nazi,s and the Irish left.
Once more coggy proves my point that like the nazi,s ,the irish left want the destruction of the traditional family.
It is Coggy, not I, who has defined traditional.
Coggy also evades the issue of the cultural ndoctrination of children which the nazis worked hard at as do the Irish left
Since you refuse to name your leader I do not know who you refer to all I know is that severall prominent left wing Irish leaders have been charged with criminal offences and membership of subversive/terrorist organisations
But you do.
INLA,Sinn Fein, Saor Eire etc etc
Racist scum & unity among races is the exact rhetoric that was used extensively by the nazis.
Coggys use of such language merely reinforces the connection between nazi rhetoric and that of the Irish left
So did the nazis until they got power then they banned them.
Saor Eire,INLA & Sinn Fein have all been described as terrorist groups.
All of those parties are left wing parties.
Coggy claims to come from the Irish left and telling me now to shut up is exactly what a nazi would do
Last edited by The Field Marshal; 22nd September 2010 at 05:14 PM.
This whole thread successfully trivialises the experiences of people who suffered or died under the Nazis even with the title itself. The whole conspiracy of the abusing of the memory of the Nazis or the Holocaust has been best exposed by the American political academic Norman Finkelstein who revealed in his book The Holocaust Industry how interests are exploiting the holocaust for their own selfish reasons and creating an atmosphere in which it has become impossible to criticise the actions of Jewish interests such as the Zionist movement, he pointed out how holocaust funding rarely ends up in the hands of survivors but in the hands of Zionists and powerful special interest groups and their lawyers. Effectively turning the Shoah into a kind of publicity and money making gimick as well as a device for demonising people and shutting down debate.
The state that best preserves the memory of the Nazis today is Israel which is an ethnic-nationalist state or an ethnocracy - run by and for a specific ethnic group - with major penalties for those who do not belong, including discrimination, risk of imprisonment, torture and murder, risk of expulsion. This state of affairs echoes to a degree the Nazi search for 'pure' Germanic bloodlines and discrimination of those who did not fit their criteria in order to preserve their 'race' and recover some ancient glory. The preservation of this idea of the Jewish 'race' (and it is largely about race (not religious practice) in this context because they embrace all those who are of Jewish descent, whether atheist, orthodox or whatever) in Israel echoes ethnic nationalism in the Balkans and could be said to be a kind of watered down version of Adolph Hitler's search for a redeemed Germanic race and culture in Germany.
Comparing the Irish Left to the Nazis - when the Irish Left itself is broadly in favor of liberalism, human rights and even mass immigration (including Sinn Fein) - shows that reality is not a factor in the deliberations that lead to this thread and your posts in it.I note the gratuitous personal derision and ad hominem contempt directed toward me.
Judging by the utter absence of merit in your posts i can only conclude you made these posts in anticipation of ad hominem attacks, much like a clown dresses up to be laughed at.
Watch: As Israel Slides Toward Fascism, Citizens and Supporters Swear Their Loyalty | | AlterNet
On the characteristics of an ethnocracy and why Israel is one, the following article is instructive...The Israeli Knesset is debating a bill proposed by David Rotem of the extreme right Yisrael Beiteinu party that would require all Israeli citizens to swear loyalty to Israel as a "Jewish and democratic state." This bill is targeted at increasing pressure on the 20 percent of Israelis who are Palestinian citizens, while forcing the ultra-Orthodox Jewish minority who reject the legitimacy of any state not based on Jewish biblical law to accept Zionism.
The Israeli Ethnocracy and the Bantustanisation of Palestine (Ivan Ivekovic)
He gives the 'key features' of an ethnocracy...(1) the state is constitutionally defined as an exclusive Jewish state; (2) the Palestinian minority that remained in that state is de jure and de facto discriminated; the Israeli Palestinians are second class citizens; (3) ethnic cleansing and terror against the Palestinians was from the very beginning, the official policy of the state; (4) the Zionist ideology that provided the justification for the establishment of the Israeli state and that still dominates its political life is an ethno-nationally exclusive ideology; although in the interpretation of some Israeli political parties and religious groups it is certainly a totalitarian ideology, different interpretations of its essential common tenets co-exist, and ultimately produce a dominant Zionist ‘mentality,’ rather than a full-blown totalitarian nationalist ideology.
Obviously the link to the dominant ethnicity in Israel determines status so simply living there from time immemorial is not enough, a Jew who moves there from far away with no recorded ancestry there instantly receives more rights than a Palestinian familly that had lived there as far back as records go. I would not say this is Nazi-like... exactly, the Nazis were more extreme in the end and were willing to murder and torture huge numbers of people but even there Hitler began with discrimination, symbolism, expulsion (or encouraging unwanted groups to leave), it is probably best to say Israel is at that earlier Protonazi stage - undeniably it is closer to that stage than most other countries in the world.- Despite several democratic features, ethnicity (and not territorial citizenship) determines the allocation of rights and privileges. A constant democratic-ethnocratic tension characterizes politics.
- State borders and political boundaries are fuzzy. There is no identifiable demos, mainly due to the role of ethnic diasporas inside the polity and the inferior position of ethnic minorities.
- A dominant ‘charter’ ethnic group appropriates the state apparatus, determines most public policies, and segregates itself from other groups.
- Political, residential, and economic segregation and stratification occur on two main levels: ethno-nations and ethno-classes.
- The constitutive logic of ethno-national segregation is diffused, enhancing a process of political ethnicization among sub-groups within each ethno-nation (Yiftachel 1999: 5).
Ethnocracy is a term coined by a post-zionist to ram Israel.
I don't know what kind of ethnocracy you talk about - since the control is no longer in the hands of the Aashkenazi elite, and the Israeli elite is not comprised anymore from the Ashkenazis alone.
The IDF had chiefs of staff from Persian origins, who were regarded not at the top of the Israeli elite since ever.
If by ethnocracy you mean that the Jews are in control of the Jewish state - then YES, and so it should stay.
If you really are interested in ethnocracy, I'd suggest you look for it in Syria, Jordan and some other places.
Last edited by yanshuf; 22nd September 2010 at 09:46 PM.
Bíonn dhá insint ar scéal!
By ethnocracy i mean those accepted as Jews, not Ashkenazi... the Jews are viewed as a race in Israel, it doesn't matter whether a Jew there is an atheist, an ultra orthodox or whatever, his religious observance is irrelevent - only the fact that he is of Jewish descent (ie born from Jews) entitles him to the more priveleged status afforded to Jews in the country. On the surface it seems like a religion but underneath what is preached in much of Judaism is that the Jewishness is carried in the blood, separating them from non-Jews.
Most of Israel is populated by Jews of European and Russian origins so your claim doesn't demonstrate anything, a Persian Jew if he arrived in Israel would still be a Jew and treated as such, the other nationality aspect doesn't matter too much - although i don't think it is altogether irrelevent, Ethiopian Jews seem to have it worse than others (dark skin not good?).The IDF had chiefs of staff from Persian origins, who were regarded not at the top of the Israeli elite since ever.
Ethiopian Jews in Israel still await the promised land - Telegraph
"There should be no differences between black Jews and white Jews," said Ayeli, 29, who was among 15,000 people who this week celebrated the Ethiopian-Jewish Sigd - prostration - festival in Jerusalem. ....
A recent study showed that 53 per cent of employers preferred not to hire Ethiopians, who nevertheless still fared better than Arabs with an 83 per cent rejection rate.
The study also found that 70 per cent of employers tended not to promote Ethiopians.
Israel's Association for Civil Rights reported that employment rates within the Ethiopian community were 10 per cent lower than for the rest of the population last year.I outlined the points of an ethnocracy above, it's more than dominance on a political level, it also exists on a constitutional level, a media level, a judicial level - but the main point in ethnocracies is that our rights including the value of your citizenship there are determined more by your ethnicity than having lived there continually.If by ethnocracy you mean that the Jews are in control of the Jewish state - then YES, and so it should stay.
Why should the jews ,of all the races in the world, have their own specific state?
This is to argue and to justify
1]that statehood based soley on a single ethnicity & race is valid.
2]that such a state has a right to preserve that ethnicity by law.
These are exactly the same arguments that were presented to justify the Nazi propagandists theory of the Aryan master race.
The jews have condemned this theory yet believe it is ok for them to implement it
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