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Thread: Is Irish Left comparable with Nazi Ideology?

  1. #751
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    Quote Originally Posted by L'Chaim View Post
    I'm well aware of when Dachau was opened. And even in your own link in your post above it agrees with what I said about the concentration camps at that time (Aug 1933) i.e. they were for political prisoners. Your own post totally agrees with my last point. The time frame of your cut and paste ( 715), which you posted as accurate history, truth, fact and reality, is none of those things i.e. "....Aug 7 1933 Jews existed as refugees and in concentration camps....." The time frame is all wrong. In Aug 1933 the inmates in concentration camps were political opponents of the Nazis. The Nuremberg Laws which denied Jews fundamental rights and citizenship didn't come about until 1935. So your cut and pastes are based on inaccurate information. And time is very important in history. Get the time wrong (your cut and paste 715) and it's not history, it's fiction and fantasy. Maybe when you cut and paste something, like those reams of posts from 715 on, you should make sure that what you are cutting and pasting is accurate......especially when you say it's accurate history, reality and fact. All you've done is high light your ignorance of the history you are trying to argue. And when you do that you just come across as foolish
    And yet my cut and pastes are fact , and your dribblings are fantasy.

    You are extreamly insulting to the memory of those Jews who were incarcerated in Dachau concentration camp as political prisoners from it's beginning.
    The first Jewish prisoners came as known political opponents of the Nazis. At Dachau, as elsewhere, they received even worse treatment than the other prisoners......

    Dachau became a useful training ground for the SS, at Dachau first learned to see those with different convictions as inferior and to deal with them accordingly, not hesitating to kill when the occasion arose, as the following will demonstrate:
    On the 12 April 1933 in Dachau four Jews died as a result of deliberate sadism, an eyewitness account of their deaths was smuggled to Britain by a prisoner who was later released.
    “A few days ago we were going out as usual to work. All of a sudden the Jewish prisoners – Goldmann, a merchant, Benario, a lawyer from Nuremberg, and the merchants Artur and Erwin Kahn – were ordered to fall out of ranks. Without even a word, some Stormtroop men shot at them.
    They had not made any attempt to escape- all were killed on the spot all had bullet wounds in their foreheads. The four Jews were buried secretly, no one being allowed to be present.
    Then a meeting was called, and a Stormtroop leader made a speech in which he told us that it was a good thing these four Jewish sows were dead. They had been hostile elements who had no right to live in Germany – they had received their due punishment.”

    Dachau The 1st Concentration Camp http://www.HolocaustResearchProject.org
    Just because they were a minority there does not mean that they deserve your denials

    Shame on you .

  2. #752
    Politics.ie Regular L'Chaim's Avatar
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    I think you will find that if they were sent to dachau in 1933 it was because they were political opponents of the Nazi party and not because they were Jews. The time frame in your cut and paste is not history or fact. It's assumptions and fiction. The Nuremberg laws which denied Jews rights etc. didn't come into effect until 1935. What you cut and paste as history and fact are anything but.

  3. #753
    Politics.ie Regular Cellach's Avatar
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    Much money in this hasbarat work L'Chaim? I could do with a part-time job..

  4. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by L'Chaim View Post
    I think you will find that if they were sent to dachau in 1933 it was because they were political opponents of the Nazi party and not because they were Jews. The time frame in your cut and paste is not history or fact. It's assumptions and fiction. The Nuremberg laws which denied Jews rights etc. didn't come into effect until 1935. What you cut and paste as history and fact are anything but.
    I already knew that . That is why I posted to that effect .
    It is you who is the student here , and not a particularly bright one either.
    Do try and keep up .

  5. #755
    Politics.ie Regular L'Chaim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fermoy View Post
    I already knew that . That is why I posted to that effect .
    It is you who is the student here , and not a particularly bright one either.
    Do try and keep up .
    Oh I am keeping up. You might think that cutting and pasting reams of fiction hides your lack of knowledge on this period of history, but it doesn't. Let me make it simple for you and show you how you are going all over the place and making yourself look foolish; in your post 712 you claimed that Zionists were making deals with the Nazis in the 1940s that enabled them to hand pick the Jews they wanted sent to palestine, while the other Jews the Zionists didn't want were sent to the extermination camps. To back up that claim you cut and pasted a piece (post 715, which is also inaccurate time wise to something else) that said there was a meeting between Zionists and Nazis on Aug 7 1933. In 1933 if Zionists were meeting Nazi heads to try and get Jews sent to Palestine, this was some years before Jews were being sent to the concentration camps (remember the Nuremberg laws didn't even come into effect until 1935). In 1933 the Zionists meeting Nazis to try and get Jews to palestine couldn't have possibly been able to see into the future to know that the nazis were going to send Jews to the concentration camps. So your claim in post 712 is deliberately misleading and wrong. Do you still say that the Zionists were making deals with the Nazis in the 40s to save selected Jews while knowing the others would be sent to the camps, while your back-up cut and paste says the meeting took place on Aug 7 1933, when nobody could have known what the future in Nazi Germany had in store for the Jews? Time frame is very important in history. What you are claiming as fact and truth and reality and accurate history, is nothing more than the ramblings of a fool (you).

  6. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by L'Chaim View Post
    Oh I am keeping up. You might think that cutting and pasting reams of fiction hides your lack of knowledge on this period of history, but it doesn't. Let me make it simple for you and show you how you are going all over the place and making yourself look foolish; in your post 712 you claimed that Zionists were making deals with the Nazis in the 1940s that enabled them to hand pick the Jews they wanted sent to palestine, while the other Jews the Zionists didn't want were sent to the extermination camps. To back up that claim you cut and pasted a piece (post 715, which is also inaccurate time wise to something else) that said there was a meeting between Zionists and Nazis on Aug 7 1933. In 1933 if Zionists were meeting Nazi heads to try and get Jews sent to Palestine, this was some years before Jews were being sent to the concentration camps (remember the Nuremberg laws didn't even come into effect until 1935). In 1933 the Zionists meeting Nazis to try and get Jews to palestine couldn't have possibly been able to see into the future to know that the nazis were going to send Jews to the concentration camps. So your claim in post 712 is deliberately misleading and wrong. Do you still say that the Zionists were making deals with the Nazis in the 40s to save selected Jews while knowing the others would be sent to the camps, while your back-up cut and paste says the meeting took place on Aug 7 1933, when nobody could have known what the future in Nazi Germany had in store for the Jews? Time frame is very important in history. What you are claiming as fact and truth and reality and accurate history, is nothing more than the ramblings of a fool (you).
    Yet again you demonstrate your complete lack of knowledge of the facts of history .
    Everything that I have posted is true .
    How hard is that for you to understand .

    Do you want me to post more articles that show you up for the ignorant fool that you are ?
    How about the names of some nazi supporting zionists ?
    Well known names , so well known that even a clot such as yourself will recognise them .

  7. #757
    Politics.ie Regular L'Chaim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fermoy View Post
    Yet again you demonstrate your complete lack of knowledge of the facts of history .
    Everything that I have posted is true .
    How hard is that for you to understand .

    Do you want me to post more articles that show you up for the ignorant fool that you are ?
    How about the names of some nazi supporting zionists ?
    Well known names , so well known that even a clot such as yourself will recognise them .
    How could everything you say be true, when you said in your post 712, that Zionists met with Nazis in the 1940s to hand pick Jews they wanted to get to palestine, while at the same time knowing the rest would be sent to camps to most likely die. And to back up this disgraceful claim you cut and paste something in post 715 that said Zionists met nazis on Aug 7 1933. Now in 1933 nobody (not even the Nazi leaders) knew what was in store for Jews in the 1940s. Yet you still try and say that your absurd claim that Zionists knew that the Jews they couldn't get out (in 1933) were going to probably die in camps (in the 1940s), is true? The time frame is all wrong. You are tripping yourself up with your foolishness and your claims disgrace you.

  8. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by L'Chaim View Post
    How could everything you say be true, when you said in your post 712, that Zionists met with Nazis in the 1940s to hand pick Jews they wanted to get to palestine, while at the same time knowing the rest would be sent to camps to most likely die. And to back up this disgraceful claim you cut and paste something in post 715 that said Zionists met nazis on Aug 7 1933. Now in 1933 nobody (not even the Nazi leaders) knew what was in store for Jews in the 1940s. Yet you still try and say that your absurd claim that Zionists knew that the Jews they couldn't get out (in 1933) were going to probably die in camps (in the 1940s), is true? The time frame is all wrong. You are tripping yourself up with your foolishness and your claims disgrace you.
    I see that your research skills are still as non-existant as before .

    Here is another cut and paste , just for you .
    And guess what , as with the others , it is all true .
    Unlike this straw from you,
    "Yet you still try and say that your absurd claim that Zionists knew that the Jews they couldn't get out (in 1933) were going to probably die in camps (in the 1940s) is true , ..."
    We both know that I did not make that statement .
    No surprises there tho eh , porky l'chaim.

    Now ,about the zionists who 'sold' Jews to the concentration camps in the 1940s .....
    In the case of the Kastner episode, around which Jim Allen's play PERDITION is based, even the normal excuse of lack of knowledge of the real nature of events does not exist. It occurred near the end of the war. The USSR had advanced almost up to Germany. Italy and the African bases had been lost. The Nazis were on the run, with a number of key countries, such as Rumania, leaving the Axis. A second front was a matter of months away, as the western Allies prepared their forces. In the midst of all this we find Eichmann, the master bureaucrat of industrial murder, setting up is HQ in occupied Budapest, after the German takeover of the country in April 1944. His first act was to have a conference with the Jewish leadership, and to appoint Zionist Federation members, headed by Kastner, as the agent and clearing house for all Jews in their relationship with the SS and Nazi authorities. Why they did this is not difficult to see. As opposed to Poland, where its three and half million Jews lived in ghettoes and were visible different from the rest of the Polish population, the Hungarian Jews were in integrated part of the community. The middle class was mainly Jewish, the Jews were mainly middle class. They enjoyed freedom of travel, served in the Hungarian (fascist) army in frontline units, as officers and soldiers, their names were Hungarian - how was Eichmann to find them if they were to be exterminated ? The task was not easy, there were a million Jews in Hungary, most of them resident, the rest being refugees from other countries. Many had heard about the fate of Jews elsewhere, and were unlikely to believe any statements by Nazi officials.

    Like elsewhere, the only people who had the information and the ear of the frightened Jewish population were the Judenrat. In this case the Judenrat comprised mainly the Zionist Federation members. Without their help the SS, with 19 officers and less than 90 men, plus a few hundred Hungarian police, could not have collected and controlled a million Jews, when they did not even know their whereabouts. Kastner and the others were left under no illusions. Eichmann told Joel Brand, one of the members of Kastner's committee, that he intended to send all Hungary's Jews to Auschwitz, before he even started the expulsions! He told them clearly that all these Jews will die, 12,000 a day, unless certain conditions were met.

    The Committee faced a simple choice - to tell the Jews of Hungary about their fate, (with neutral Rumania, where many could escape, being in most cases a few hours away) or to collaborate with the Nazis by assisting in the concentration process. What would not have been believed when coming from the SS, sounded quite plausible when coming from the mouths of the Zionist leadership. Thus it is, that most of the Hungarian Jews went quietly to their death, assured by their leadership that they were sent to work camps.

    To be sure, there are thirty pieces of silver in this narrative of destruction: the trains of 'prominents' which Eichmann promised to Kastner - a promise he kept to the last detail. For Eichmann it was a bargain: allowing 1,680 Jews to survive, as the price paid for the silent collaboration over the death of almost a million Jews.

    There was no way in which the Jews of Hungary could even be located, not to say murdered, without the full collaboration of Kastner and his few friends. No doubt the SS would hunt a few Jews here and there, but the scale of the operation would have been minuscule compared to the half million who died in Auschwitz.

    It is important to realise that Kastner was not an aberration, like say Rumkovky in Lodz. Kastner acted as a result of his strongly held Zionist convictions. His actions were a logical outcome of earlier positions. This is instanced when he exposed to the Gestapo the existence of a British cell of saboteurs, Palgi and Senesh, and persuaded them to give themselves up, so as not to disrupt his operations. At no point during his trial or elsewhere, did Kastner deny that he knew exactly what was to happen to those Jews.

    http://abbc.net/historia/zionism/zionhol01.html

  9. #759
    Politics.ie Regular L'Chaim's Avatar
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    The only one telling lies here is you. You are tripping yourself up with times and dates and showing how ignorant you are of the time in history you are tring to argue. Here's what you said and then you backed up that claim in post 715 by cutting and pasting that Zionists met with Nazis on Aug 7 1933 to try and get Jews sent from germany to palestine. Now in 1933 the Zionists who were meeting German officials to try and get Jews sent to Palestine couldn't have possibly known what lay in store for Jews in the 1940s or even that they would be transported to the camps (not even Nazi leaders in 1933 would have known that. Hitler wouldn't even have known that). Your claim below, apart from being untrue, disgraces you


    Quote Originally Posted by Fermoy View Post

    Remember that in the early 1940s the zionists made a deal with their friends the nazis , that enabled them to hand pick the ones that they wanted released for emigration to Palestine .
    The price for that was of course , the transportation of the rest , to the camps.
    The final solution was both a zionist and a nazi answer to a problem.
    Last edited by L'Chaim; 25th October 2009 at 02:20 AM.

  10. #760
    Politics.ie Regular b.a. baracus's Avatar
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    34 minutes to make a response L'Chaim. Are the Israeli government not paying you enough money to be at your post at all times?
    I ain't gettin' on no plane

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