The coming "crisis" and American totalitarianism

[Lthse]

Yes...RUSSIANS.

Leaving aside all the evidence (and the admission/bragging by them) since no argument from me would ever convince you.
Who do you think did attack them then? Who else has the motive to do that?

No argument from you is going to convince me because you have no evidence, just bluster and media spin. You can't even produce an admission because there is none. Here's what the FBI say about Bin Laden:

FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitive

MURDER OF U.S. NATIONALS OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES; CONSPIRACY TO MURDER U.S. NATIONALS OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES; ATTACK ON A FEDERAL FACILITY RESULTING IN DEATH

Unless of course you know something the FBI don't know, I suggest you hand over the evidence to them.

[PhoenixIreland]

Lthse you didn't answer my question, if AQ didn't do it who did?
As for the admission check out OBLs 2004 tape right before the election.

(and that federal facility is the WTC which was attacked twice)

Exactly. It is not nation building they're engaged in, it is nation demolition.

Don't be so childish. There was no nation there to begin with Afghanistan is a line on a map not a real country, much like Somalia, thats why I think nation building is pointless.

It's also a sh1t hole no sane country would be in unless they had to be.

[Lthse]

Lthse you didn't answer my question, if AQ didn't do it who did?
As for the admission check out OBLs 2004 tape right before the election.

(and that federal facility is the WTC which was attacked twice)

Now you're grasping at straws, which video is it and which Bin Laden, is it the video that was shown a year before by the BBC? Is it the right handed or left handed Bin Laden? and do you actually hear him saying this? was the global war on terror started over a video admission? surely they would have more evidence than that, like how it was funded, how it was organized, how they managed to communicate from caves in Afghanistan to the US, you know the basic stuff.

and no the WTC 1 and 2 were not federal buildings and the description explicitly says attacks outside the US. Nowhere does it mention the WTC.

[PhoenixIreland]

I'm not grasping at straws, I told you what tape it was, specifically.

I'm not debating the evidence with you because it's pis sing against the wind, your minds made up and you'd never be convinced (the Loose Changeesque references to which hand bin laden used says it all there).

I'm curious however if your so convinced AQ didn't do it who you think did, we didn't imagine those planes hitting the towers, so who did it?

Do you think those hijackers acted alone?

[Almanac]

You are posting without even bothering to read the material. If you had read it, you would know the answer to the question you asked Lthse.

If you want to engage with a subject in depth, at the level at which it's being discussed, that is with reference to documented evidence, to historical context, along with clear exposure of falsehood and propaganda, fine.

If you have counter arguments complete with evidence I'd be interested to hear them. Or genuine questions. Otherwise don't waste time here. Your dismissal elsewhere of a detailed exposure, supported by heavily documented evidence, of covert operations aimed at destablising the very countries the forces of occupation say they are there to help as "hysterical" was so stupid it didn't even merit a response.

If you think, to take one example, the murder of Iraqi civilians by SAS soldiers dressed as Arabs, along with the mysterious death of the British captain appointed to investigate the case does not turn the official narrative on its head, then there's very little I can do to alter such a mental state.

I suggest you read through this thread in full.

[garlandgreen]

38 Pages now...

As Agressi would say Jesus wept

[PhoenixIreland]

You are posting without even bothering to read the material. If you had read it, you would know the answer to the question you asked Lthse.

If you want to engage with a subject in depth, at the level at which it's being discussed, that is with reference to documented evidence, to historical context, along with clear exposure of falsehood and propaganda, fine.

If you have counter arguments complete with evidence I'd be interested to hear them. Or genuine questions. Otherwise don't waste time here. Your dismissal elsewhere of a detailed exposure, supported by heavily documented evidence, of covert operations aimed at destablising the very countries the forces of occupation say they are there to help as "hysterical" was so stupid it didn't even merit a response.

If you think, to take one example, the murder of Iraqi civilians by SAS soldiers dressed as Arabs, along with the mysterious death of the British captain appointed to investigate the case does not turn the official narrative on its head, then there's very little I can do to alter such a mental state.

I suggest you read through this thread in full.

The post you refer to was talking about covert "false flag" operations in Iraq, and the post was in a thread about Afganistan

If your going to say the accepted perpetrators of a terrorist attack are innocent then you'd better have an alternative theory.
I'm not reading through 38 pages to find it, you could just say it, it would take you a few seconds to type it.

[Almanac]

If you had bothered to look at the context, I was following your selective listing of Muslim attacks, many of doubtful provenance, with a listing of real terrrorist attacks committed by intelligence agencies against civilians. I can give you many more examples if you need them from all across the Middle East along with Africa.

M16 SAS MURDER. CIA MURDER. MOSSAD MURDER.

Alternatively you could watch TerrorStorm available on google video and youtube. Look it up.

And just as there, the intelligence agencies also collaborated to carry out the 9 11 attack. The plans to invade Afghanistan were already on the desk. Bush and Cheney's Enron had not managed to secure agreement to the building of a pipeline across Afghanistan from the Taliban (Cheney's Halliburton had the contract). Over the summer the Taliban had been told, "Either you accept a carpet of gold or we bury you under a carpet of bombs."

It is nothing new. Roosevelt sacrificed 2000 lives to enter WWII. As I documented, he provoked the Japanese deliberately and declassified documents prove that he was fully aware of the plan to attack Pearl Harbour before it occurred. But he let it go ahead ruthlessly. Basically murdered 2000 of his own people.

[Lthse]

I'm not grasping at straws, I told you what tape it was, specifically.

I'm not debating the evidence with you because it's pis sing against the wind, your minds made up and you'd never be convinced (the Loose Changeesque references to which hand bin laden used says it all there).

I'm curious however if your so convinced AQ didn't do it who you think did, we didn't imagine those planes hitting the towers, so who did it?

Do you think those hijackers acted alone?

After 7 years you have no evidence that Bin Laden or Al qaeda were involved in 911, the FBI have no evidence, even the Taliban said they would hand them over if the US government produced the evidence. All you can link to is a dodgy video which could have been anyone dressed as BL, you can't even hear him speak, you don't know what the hell he's even saying. The whole thing is a fraud and the war on terror was based on these ridiculous videos. We are supposed to believe this was all organized from a cave in Afghanistan. I mean seriously, you couldn't make this stuff up, and then you call other people 'conspiracy theorists'. The whole thing is a giant fraud, the perpetrators are just mocking you with this Alice in Wonderland story, they can get you to believe anything they want. The bigger the lie the easier it is to fool the masses.

btw you still haven't said what the change is with regard to Obama, this was the point in the video, that he's just another nwo puppet fraud. He's still bombing Pakistan, still leaving the soldiers in Iraq, still continuing with the banksters heist, still has a similar team of psychopaths and criminals around him to continue the work Bush started. So what's the change?

[PhoenixIreland]

I told you, I'm not debating an already widely accepted fact with someone who will never change their mind anyway.
It does not take much genius to think of crashing a plane into a building, I don't know why you think it would be more difficult to think of that when your in a cave as opposed to anywhere else but anyway...

Since your not willing to say who you think did plan the attacks I'll leave 9-11.


You said Obama planned to pull all troops out of Iraq right away, he never said any such thing, and that would be a mind numbingly stupid thing to do.
He said 16-18 months, and thats exactly whats happening:

TheHill.com - Obama asks Joint Chiefs for Iraq withdrawal planning

They were planning this even before he was sworn in:
Pentagon: Iraq withdrawal has 16-month time frame - Yahoo! News

Thats the change he promised, from Bush/McCain who were willing to keep troops there indefinitely and build permanent bases.

Thats without getting into the closing of GITMO and the black sites.

As for Pakistan he said, throughout the campaign:

"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will,"


As for bank bailouts, I don't agree with him on that, but his position on that was quite clear before 53% of the public voted for him.
Theres tonnes of changes in his plans from Bush, just not the kind you want.