Mossad plan Terrorist Attack on Ireland soil

[khavakoz]

You want to know which sections of the transcripts are still classified and what's in them? Get your own fecking security clearance, I'm not going to prison for your curiosity.

Do some research for yourself. Without the blinkers on. You just might raise yourself out of your ignorance, and that's without even touching classified documentation. Start with the Israeli military personel information that is in the open.

First of all - for the love of God, can you please trim off a previous post properly? wading through page after page of you quoting someone else's entire message to see the nuggets ion new data contained at the very end is deeply annoying and destroys any sense of meaning. I can see perfectly well what conor wrote by scrolling up if I want to - I don't need you to reshow the entirety of his post.

Secondly - well - what security clearance do you have? with whom? how did you get it?

You can't come willy wagging about security clearance with no back up to the claims whatsoever.

[The OD]

Will Eric Bana be in this one too?

:P

[Conor the Bold]

I ASKED if you were as ignorant as your posts INTIMATED. From reading this post, I will accept that you actually are ignorant of military history, etc.

Thats quite interesting. You've claimed several things, yet when called for you to actually support your assertions (i.e. the usage of napalm in WWII against ships), you immediately come back with

'You are ignorant of military history, etc.'

Try answering the questions and points put to you instead of just ignore the glaring holes in your arguments...

You don't even know that Udi Errell was an Ensign at the time of the attack on the Liberty.

Again, like I said - Sources conflict. But then again I bet you wouldn't even be able to find the inital source in the first place. But ignoring that for one second - you've still failed to acknowledge that for some reason a VIP was severely reprimanded and placed in a career dead end. Not exactly the best thing to use the Son of the Admiral of the Israeli Navy for...

Not that in itself its that important. Its just an illustration of a VIP being severely punished because of the operation. So 'You don't even know such and such was an Ensign' - is a bit much wouldn't you say? Considering it was nothing more than an aside...

You want to know which sections of the transcripts are still classified and what's in them? Get your own fecking security clearance, I'm not going to prison for your curiosity.

LOL! Thats funny.

You need to state which parts of what transcripts are still classified and unavailable. Its all well and good to insist that transcripts which validate your position are classified and unavailible. But the real fact of the matter is that they don't exist. The only transcripts which exist are thoe ones which have been released under the FOIA and indicate that Israeli forces still thought that the target was an Egyptian Supply Ship.

'As for 'get your own fecking security clearance, I'm not going to prison for your curiosity.'

If you had such a thing, you would already be in danger of being proscueted because you've admitted that Transcripts which the NSA say don't exist - exist. Not too mention, what possible reason would you have to see classified files regarding USS Liberty :mrgreen: .

Quite obviously a tactic of somebody who has got their arse kicked and know has to resort to - 'I know more than you, but I can't tell you'. One would think your claims would stand up on their own. But since it doesn't even pass a logical analysis, I think I can rest safe in my bed that you know SFA.

Do some research for yourself. Without the blinkers on. You just might raise yourself out of your ignorance, and that's without even touching classified documentation. Start with the Israeli military personel information that is in the open.

Excuse me ************************************************ - answer every single question and counter point. Your failure to address the gaping holes in your arguments is telling. And now because you refuse to back up your assertions - you claim the onus is on me to disprove you. Sorry but it doesn't work like that in Law, Science or History. prove you assertions or retract them.

You've claimed several times that Napalm was used on ships in WWII. Prove it.

Your outline plan which centres on the usage of Napalm to clear the deck and subdue to crew simply makes no sense whatsoever...

Your assertion that despite being a sticky and viscous substance - Napalm could seep through doors and melt door gaskets (despite gaskets should be rated to be fireproof as fire is not an unknown occurance). And seep through small holes in the superstructure and into the spaces below.

And yet, you use Napalm to clear the decks, yet fail to realise that a Boarding party would be more affect by Napalm than the crew.

And then you point out that the crew of USS liberty was about 280 crew. Just how exactly will you subdue them?
How big is your boarding party going to be? How will the crew of 3 MTB managed to overcome 280 people?
How are you going to get through doors which are locked and barricaded?
How are you going to stop the equipment which you are trying to steal from being destroyed before you get in?

How do you even know where the equipment is?

How do you remove it?

And all without somebody managing to raise the alarm "We're being boarded by Israeli's!"

Or that a cannister of napalm would be able to heat up a ship displacing more than 7700 tons, sitting in water - to heat up the spaces below deck to vastly uncomfortable temperatures.

Yeah. Its much easier to label me as ignorant - claim to non existant, classifed files, than actually answer the glaring holes in your theory. Or claim that I will find the answer if I 'research' it. You're trying to disprove the fact that Israel accidently attacked a US Flagged ship - witht aht they intentionally tried to and seal equipment. Prove it.

Muppet.

[myksav]

You want to know which sections of the transcripts are still classified and what's in them? Get your own fecking security clearance, I'm not going to prison for your curiosity.

Do some research for yourself. Without the blinkers on. You just might raise yourself out of your ignorance, and that's without even touching classified documentation. Start with the Israeli military personel information that is in the open.

First of all - for the love of God, can you please trim off a previous post properly? wading through page after page of you quoting someone else's entire message to see the nuggets ion new data contained at the very end is deeply annoying and destroys any sense of meaning. I can see perfectly well what conor wrote by scrolling up if I want to - I don't need you to reshow the entirety of his post.

Secondly - well - what security clearance do you have? with whom? how did you get it?

You can't come willy wagging about security clearance with no back up to the claims whatsoever.

[myksav]

I ASKED if you were as ignorant as your posts INTIMATED. From reading this post, I will accept that you actually are ignorant of military history, etc.

Thats quite interesting. You've claimed several things, yet when called for you to actually support your assertions (i.e. the usage of napalm in WWII against ships), you immediately come back with

'You are ignorant of military history, etc.'

Try answering the questions and points put to you instead of just ignore the glaring holes in your arguments...

You don't even know that Udi Errell was an Ensign at the time of the attack on the Liberty.

Again, like I said - Sources conflict. But then again I bet you wouldn't even be able to find the inital source in the first place. But ignoring that for one second - you've still failed to acknowledge that for some reason a VIP was severely reprimanded and placed in a career dead end. Not exactly the best thing to use the Son of the Admiral of the Israeli Navy for...

Not that in itself its that important. Its just an illustration of a VIP being severely punished because of the operation. So 'You don't even know such and such was an Ensign' - is a bit much wouldn't you say? Considering it was nothing more than an aside...

[quote:2vyu0o81]You want to know which sections of the transcripts are still classified and what's in them? Get your own fecking security clearance, I'm not going to prison for your curiosity.

LOL! Thats funny.

You need to state which parts of what transcripts are still classified and unavailable. Its all well and good to insist that transcripts which validate your position are classified and unavailible. But the real fact of the matter is that they don't exist. The only transcripts which exist are thoe ones which have been released under the FOIA and indicate that Israeli forces still thought that the target was an Egyptian Supply Ship.

'As for 'get your own fecking security clearance, I'm not going to prison for your curiosity.'

If you had such a thing, you would already be in danger of being proscueted because you've admitted that Transcripts which the NSA say don't exist - exist. Not too mention, what possible reason would you have to see classified files regarding USS Liberty :mrgreen: .

Quite obviously a tactic of somebody who has got their arse kicked and know has to resort to - 'I know more than you, but I can't tell you'. One would think your claims would stand up on their own. But since it doesn't even pass a logical analysis, I think I can rest safe in my bed that you know SFA.

Do some research for yourself. Without the blinkers on. You just might raise yourself out of your ignorance, and that's without even touching classified documentation. Start with the Israeli military personel information that is in the open.

Excuse me ****************** - answer every single question and counter point. Your failure to address the gaping holes in your arguments is telling. And now because you refuse to back up your assertions - you claim the onus is on me to disprove you. Sorry but it doesn't work like that in Law, Science or History. prove you assertions or retract them.

You've claimed several times that Napalm was used on ships in WWII. Prove it.

Your outline plan which centres on the usage of Napalm to clear the deck and subdue to crew simply makes no sense whatsoever...

Your assertion that despite being a sticky and viscous substance - Napalm could seep through doors and melt door gaskets (despite gaskets should be rated to be fireproof as fire is not an unknown occurance). And seep through small holes in the superstructure and into the spaces below.

And yet, you use Napalm to clear the decks, yet fail to realise that a Boarding party would be more affect by Napalm than the crew.

And then you point out that the crew of USS liberty was about 280 crew. Just how exactly will you subdue them?
How big is your boarding party going to be? How will the crew of 3 MTB managed to overcome 280 people?
How are you going to get through doors which are locked and barricaded?
How are you going to stop the equipment which you are trying to steal from being destroyed before you get in?

How do you even know where the equipment is?

How do you remove it?

And all without somebody managing to raise the alarm "We're being boarded by Israeli's!"

Or that a cannister of napalm would be able to heat up a ship displacing more than 7700 tons, sitting in water - to heat up the spaces below deck to vastly uncomfortable temperatures.

Yeah. Its much easier to label me as ignorant - claim to non existant, classifed files, than actually answer the glaring holes in your theory. Or claim that I will find the answer if I 'research' it. You're trying to disprove the fact that Israel accidently attacked a US Flagged ship - witht aht they intentionally tried to and seal equipment. Prove it.

Muppet.[/quote:2vyu0o81]

[Conor the Bold]

Finally exposed myksav for the ****************************** he is.

"Lad, you don't have a clue".

[L'Chaim]

In 1940 Eichman came up with the idea of sending Jews to Madagascar and an Jew in Palestine called Stern tried to negotiate with the Germans to have them sent to Palestine instead. The Germans didn't even entertain that idea and never even bothered replying to the request.

Never heard of the Kastner trial ?

[quote:1okylyrg]Kastner negotiated with Adolf Eichmann, a senior SS officer, to allow almost 1,700 Hungarian Jews to leave for Switzerland — in exchange for money, gold, and diamonds — on what became known as the Kastner train.

Kastner moved to Israel after the war, becoming a spokesman for the Ministry of Trade and Industry in 1952.[2]

In 1953, he was accused in a little-read pamphlet self-published by Malchiel Gruenwald, an amateur writer and stamp collector, of having been a Nazi collaborator, because of the nature and extent of his relationship with Eichmann, and with Kurt Becher, another SS officer. The Israeli government sued Gruenwald for libel on Kastner's behalf, resulting in a trial that lasted two years, and a ruling in 1955 that Kastner had indeed, in the words of the judge, "sold his soul to the devil."[3] The judge ruled that, by saving the Jews on the Kastner train, while failing to warn others that the "resettlement" promised by the Nazis was in fact deportation to Auschwitz, Kastner had sacrificed the mass of Jewry for a chosen few. The Kastner train was simply a "gift" from the Nazis, the judge said, aimed at obtaining the cooperation of the privileged so as not to panic the masses.[4] Accepting that gift was "collaboration in the fullest sense of the word," he said.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Kastner

The nazis were trying to avoid another Warsaw ghetto. If the hungarians had not been persuaded to cooperate, many would have survivied.[/quote:1okylyrg]

Yes I did hear of the Kastner trial. There's also much debate still about this in Israel. There's also a train of thought that if Kastner had warned the Jews, nobody would have gotten out. However we are looking at 1944 when the Nazis were in control; and were pulling the strings. Kastner maybe thought that he was using the Nazis, but they were actually using him. Some say kastner had a sort of 'Sophie's Choice' to make - save some or lose all.

You've got to look at this in the time it happened. The Nazis took everything the Jews had. They took away their jobs, their citizenship, their property, their names and even their hair. They made it so the Jews in the ghettos lost their humanity. Jews were stealing from Jews in order to survive and resorting to despicable tricks and schemes, so that someone else would be selected for deportation. It was all done by the Nazis to take away the Jews' humanity.

So who knows what people will do in a situation like that. In hindsight it's very easy to say what he should have done. And in hindsight it's very easy to have a gung-ho attitude of 'we'll all go down together', but that's hindsight. Unless you were there in the middle of that unbelievably evil situation, you couldn't know what you would do. But at the end of the day he did get over 1600 Jews out. After that it all becomes maybe and what if. But he did get 1600 Jews out

@ Conor the Bold . If you ever decide to lecture in history, I'll be the first one to sign up for the course. Your attention to detail and facts are second to none. Lovin' your posts and khavakoz's too

[bob3344]

Yes I did hear of the Kastner trial. There's also much debate still about this in Israel. There's also a train of thought that if Kastner had warned the Jews, nobody would have gotten out. However we are looking at 1944 when the Nazis were in control; and were pulling the strings.

1944 - The war was nearly over. If the hungarians had been warned & had merely not cooperated, many of them would have survived. The germans could not have shot them all.

He collaborated with the Nazis, which was of little concern to the Israeli gov until the matter was exposed. Then it became necessary to assassinate him.

It is interesting that this episode should be so little known given the endless focus on the holocaust. Wonder why that is.

[L'Chaim]

As I said, who knows how people react when they were in the middle of a very evil situation. However he did save over 1600 Jews by getting them out of Hungry on that train and he negotiated with the Nazis for another 20,000 Hungarian Jews to be diverted to an Austrian labour camp rather than sending them to extermination camps. Now you keep quoting the 1954 trial which went totally against him. But in 1958, a year after he was killed, Israel's Supreme court overturned almost all of the previous verdicts.

And last year Yad Vashem Holocaust Museum in Jerusalem displayed his papers and correspondence with Nazis, in the hope of ending the vilification of Kastner
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/884889.html

Yad Vashem officials said "There was no man in history who saved more Jews and was subjected to more injustice than Kastner"