Chavez Urges FARC to Call Off The Killing

[FamilyGuy]

twtone:

Except that I wouldn't say "deported"--they were extradited to the US on drugs charges.

They were indeed extradited to the US, not for any noble reasons of justice, but to ensure that they did not face trial in Colombia for the thousands of murders they were involved in and to try to hinder and thwart the work of Colombias "Justice and Peace" process by trying to hide the connections between many in the Government and the Death Squads and narco terrorists.

In the early hours of May 13 Uribe extradited 14 leaders of the paramilitary Autodefensas Unidas de Colombia from its custody to the US. Despite admitting the murder of more than 4,000 people, the "para" leaders have been extradited solely on drugs charges, not human rights violations, for which they may never stand trial. 96 Uribe supporters in the country's congress are being held in detention or under investigation for links with these same paramilitaries

In the course of this sudden extradition, top paramilitary Salvatore Mancuso's computer and the hard drives used by four other leaders have disappeared from Itag maximum security prison. One drive was used by "Tuso Sierra", known to have business dealings with the former senator Mario Uribe, President Uribe's cousin and lifelong political ally.

Prosecutors say they can't be sure that laptops and cell phone SIM cards weren't tampered with during the more than 48 hours that lapsed before prison officials handed them over to judicial investigators.

Still unaccounted for are the computer and SIM cards of three warlords including Salvatore Mancuso, who has implicated more politicians and military officers in crimes than any other paramilitary boss.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/latina ... with_care/

[FamilyGuy]

http://www.soaw.org/article.php?id=1024

On February 21-22, 2005, eight members of the San Jose de Apartado Peace Community in Uraba, Colombia -including three young children, were brutally massacred. Witnesses identified the killers as members of the Colombian military, and peace community members saw the army's 17th and 11th Brigades in the area around the time of the murders.

Among those killed was Luis Eduardo Guerra, an internationally recognized peace activist and a co-founder of the Peace Community. In November 2002, Luis travelled from Colombia to Fort Benning, Georgia to speak out against the School of the Americas and to give a first hand testimony about the brutal impact that SOA training and US foreign policy have on the dire situation in Colombia.

General Hector Jaime Fandino Rincon is the commander of the 17th Brigade of the Colombian army. Like Luis Eduardo, Fandino Rincon also travelled to the School of the Americas -- not to speak out for justice and peace like Luis, but to attend the "Small-Unit Infantry Tactics" course in order to become "familiar with small-unit operational concepts and principles at the squad and platoon level, [to] receive training in planning and conducting small-unit tactical operations." Fandino Rincon is a 1976 graduate of the notorious School of the Americas. In December of 2004 he was promoted to the rank of Brigadier General.

Police and military forces have flooded San Jose against the wishes of the Peace Community, which has taken a fundamental stance against any and all armed actors. Since the massacre, all but five of the 100 families that formed the Peace Community have been forced to leave their homes and land.

Those killed on February 21 and 22 included Luis Eduardo, his partner Bellanira and their son, Deiner, 11. Also massacred were Alejandro Perez, Alfonso Bolivar Tuberquia Graciano, his partner, Sandra Milena Munoz Pozo and their young children, Santiago, 18 months, and Natalia, 6 years old.

Is that your idea of democracy in action twtone and ThacOman?

[Thac0man]

http://www.soaw.org/article.php?id=1024

Is that your idea of democracy in action twtone and ThacOman?

Is that your idea an unbiased source? If so you will convince nobody who is not already convinced. We are talking about Columbia now and your source (such as it is) does not mention FARC once in its news releases dating from 1997, because if course it is not concerned with human rights, unless it portains to America somehow. A sadly debased approach to the issue of human rights, but very much in keeping with your own approach. So if human rights are not the core issue FG, what is? Human rights is not an issue only to be used when it suits one sides needs or the other.

As a source soaw informs readers of only one facet of one side of the complex issues affecting Columbia. You seem to be asking people to accept this approach as proof positive that any and all wrong doing is the fault of the Columbian government and America. Hardly credible is it?

[FamilyGuy]

Thac0man:

As a source soaw informs readers of only one facet of one side of the complex issues affecting Columbia.

A side that you conveniently keep ignoring and say doesnt bother you. SOAW are providing another side to a story that is basically one sided in the US where up until recently Uribe was the good guy and hero there. However, SOAW is about the School of the Americas and reporting on what the graduates of that school do after their training etc, their involvement in human rights abuses, massacres etc. To my knowledge FARC commanders havent received training in the School of the Americas Training camp hence the reason there are no articles following up on their activities

Specifically, what part of the article are you saying is not true ThacOman?

ThacOman

You seem to be asking people to accept this approach as proof positive that any and all wrong doing is the fault of the Columbian government and America.

Thats not true at all. You are well f*cked if you have to stoop to twotones tactics and lie about people. All wrong doing in Colombia is not solely the fault of the regime and its death squad allies, though it is more than likely the biggest culprit.I have made clear that I dont support FARC and support Chavez in calling on them to stop. I believe there has to be a negotiated peace settlement in Colombia and the sooner that begins the better.

You however, have refused to condemn Uribe and his regime, and their involvement in the harrassment, arrest, torture and murder of innocent civilians and political opponents, human rights and Trade Union activists despite numerous requests for you to do so. They continue with their campaign against those that oppose them. Do you not believe that The Regime should stop its campaign of arrest, harrassment, torture and murder?

ThacOman:

Human rights is not an issue only to be used when it suits one sides needs or the other.

Quite agree, which is why I never do that.

[FamilyGuy]

ThacOman, you still havent commented on the comments by Senator Gustavo Petro or on the other articles that I linked to. Is Petro wrong do you think? Is Uribe right to describe Democratic Pole as "terrorists"? What do you think of the content of the other articles below?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 44_pf.html

Authorities on Tuesday arrested former senator Mario Uribe, a cousin and close ally of President Álvaro Uribe, for alleged ties to death squads in a widening inquiry that has implicated nearly a quarter of Colombia's Congress.

The arrest of the former senator, who built a formidable political movement that helped his cousin win the presidency in 2002, comes during an institutional crisis that has tarnished a country closely allied with the United States.

As the result of investigations that began in 2006, 32 members of Congress have been arrested and about 30 others are being formally investigated for ties to paramilitary groups that killed thousands of civilians, infiltrated state institutions and trafficked cocaine to the United States. Preliminary investigations have begun against dozens of others, including the president of Congress, Nancy Patricia Gutiérrez, who was implicated last week.

"What we've seen happen is a de facto alliance between powerful economic interests and narco-traffickers, and the motives were to co-opt institutions and convert Colombia itself into a criminal enterprise," said Sen. Gustavo Petro, who has publicly denounced ties between his colleagues and paramilitary members. "Congress is one of the institutions that's been co-opted."

In the case of Mario Uribe's party, Democratic Colombia, five of six members who held seats in Congress have been accused of collaborating with paramilitary groups, with one member, Sen. Álvaro Garcia, charged with helping to organize a massacre

A
ny opinion on that article ThacOman?

Or what about this one?

http://www.forcolombia.org/news/latimesexecutionsonrise

Human rights activists say the Feb. 17 death is part of a deadly phenomenon called "false positives" in which the armed forces allegedly kill civilians, usually peasants or unemployed youths, and brand them as leftist guerrillas.

A macabre facet of a general increase in "extrajudicial killings" by the military, "false positives" are a result of intense pressure to show progress in Colombia's U.S.-funded war against leftist insurgents, the activists say.......

Such killings have spread terror here in the central state of Meta. Last year the state led Colombia in documented cases of extrajudicial killings, with 287 civilians allegedly slain by the military, according to the Colombian Commission of Jurists, a human rights group. That's a 10% increase from the previous year.....

The killings have increased in recent years amid an emphasis on rebel death tolls as the leading indicator of military success, the human rights groups say. Even Colombian officials acknowledge that soldiers and their commanders have been given cash and promotions for upping their units' body counts......

But at the same time, the military's human rights record is getting worse, charged a coalition of Colombian and international human rights groups. And new research by two U.S. peace groups into the killings raises serious questions about whether the United States is doing enough, as required by law, to bar U.S. funding to Colombian military units that have elicited allegations of killings and other human rights violations.....

Amnesty International USA and the Fellowship of Reconciliation have found that the U.S. government "vetted" or approved military assistance to at least 11 Colombian armed forces units last year despite "credible allegations regarding killings, disappearances and collaboration with outlawed paramilitary forces," Renata Rendon of Amnesty International USA said in Washington this month."It's outrageous this is happening. It's up to the [U.S. government] to ensure that we are not providing aid to abusive units," Rendon said.....

While not responding specifically to the claims, an official at the U.S. Embassy in Bogota said this month that Colombian armed forces' killings of civilians were a "serious problem, a serious concern."

[Thac0man]

Your first link is not working.

Your second one to the "Fellowship of reconsiliation Columbia program" is just more biased horsesh*t and spin. I read with interest their take on the mass protects by Columbians against FARC. Their editorial line finishes with:

While there is a lot of press and government spokespeople to propagate the view that the FARC is responsible for all of Colombia's woes, a closer look shows that the paramilitaries and Colombian government have been the worst violators, not to mention the US that has spent $5 billion since 2000 to fund and train the Colombian military. It is they who are most responsible to the Colombian people to change their war-mongering ways. Yesterday we were there to remind them of it.

Taken from here:
http://www.forcolombia.org/localactions/sfprotest

So just to be clear, the FRCPs line is to ignore the demonstrated will of hundreds of thouasnds of Columbians worldwide and infer they are ignorant or misguided. Thats sad and it is the FRCP and their fellow travellers who are misguided and ignorant.

Why on earth do they include "Reconsiliation" in their title? They seem to be about anything but that - no matter how well they try to disguise the fact.

[FamilyGuy]

What sources do you consider impartial? Romero?

What about Amnesty? I suppose they are FARC supporters too?

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset ... 08eng.html

I suppose you considered the Washington Post and Los Angeles Times FARC cheerleaders too?

[Thac0man]

I have edited my last post, so read it if you will.

Onto what you are trying to prove, I nor anyone else with a shred of maturity or common sense will endorse your views when to do so would be to accept a sadly blinkered, deliberatly misleading, distorting and ill-informed version of what is happening in Columbia. You are p*ssing in the wind of you think otherwise.

[Thac0man]

And I do have time for Amnesty, although they do make mistakes. But beware that Amnesty is a double edged sword for those who seek to use it soley for their own political ends, rather than to examine the broader question of human rights.

But maybe you realise that already and that is why you choose not to invoke Amnesties opinion on the Venezuela thread or about FARC......

[FamilyGuy]

ThacOman, you still havent told us what part of the SOAW article about the masacre fo innocent villagers was untrue. Why not? Care to tell us what is incorrect in that article?