Chavez Urges FARC to Call Off The Killing

[FamilyGuy]

andrejsv:

He just realized that he was undoing his image as a South American statesman amongst the rest of the SouthAmerican nations, and that he was on the verge of being isolated.

No he wasnt. Hes in afar stronger position with other South Amerian nations than ever before

andrejsv

So he just backpedalled very quickly.

How did he back pedal? He has been making similar type noises to FARC for quite some time. He has previously asked them to stop all kidnappings and release all hostages they hold unconditionally for example. He has been seeking a negotiated settlement to the conflict in Colombia

The reality is that there is a dire need for a peace process in Colombia to bring an end to both FARCS campaign and the campaigns being waged by the Colombian regime/Death Squads

Wonder will the US make similar calls for an end to violence by Uribe and his narco death squad cronies?

[FamilyGuy]

twotone:

Only a fool--and regrettably we have them here on this site--could support the narcoterror in Colombia.

Is this the narco-terror you refer to?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 44_pf.html

Authorities on Tuesday arrested former senator Mario Uribe, a cousin and close ally of President Álvaro Uribe, for alleged ties to death squads in a widening inquiry that has implicated nearly a quarter of Colombia's Congress.

The arrest of the former senator, who built a formidable political movement that helped his cousin win the presidency in 2002, comes during an institutional crisis that has tarnished a country closely allied with the United States.

As the result of investigations that began in 2006, 32 members of Congress have been arrested and about 30 others are being formally investigated for ties to paramilitary groups that killed thousands of civilians, infiltrated state institutions and trafficked cocaine to the United States. Preliminary investigations have begun against dozens of others, including the president of Congress, Nancy Patricia Gutiérrez, who was implicated last week.

"What we've seen happen is a de facto alliance between powerful economic interests and narco-traffickers, and the motives were to co-opt institutions and convert Colombia itself into a criminal enterprise," said Sen. Gustavo Petro, who has publicly denounced ties between his colleagues and paramilitary members. "Congress is one of the institutions that's been co-opted."

In the case of Mario Uribe's party, Democratic Colombia, five of six members who held seats in Congress have been accused of collaborating with paramilitary groups, with one member, Sen. Álvaro Garcia, charged with helping to organize a massacre.

Or what about this narco-terror?

http://www.forcolombia.org/news/latimesexecutionsonrise

Human rights activists say the Feb. 17 death is part of a deadly phenomenon called "false positives" in which the armed forces allegedly kill civilians, usually peasants or unemployed youths, and brand them as leftist guerrillas.

A macabre facet of a general increase in "extrajudicial killings" by the military, "false positives" are a result of intense pressure to show progress in Colombia's U.S.-funded war against leftist insurgents, the activists say.......

Such killings have spread terror here in the central state of Meta. Last year the state led Colombia in documented cases of extrajudicial killings, with 287 civilians allegedly slain by the military, according to the Colombian Commission of Jurists, a human rights group. That's a 10% increase from the previous year.....

The killings have increased in recent years amid an emphasis on rebel death tolls as the leading indicator of military success, the human rights groups say. Even Colombian officials acknowledge that soldiers and their commanders have been given cash and promotions for upping their units' body counts......

But at the same time, the military's human rights record is getting worse, charged a coalition of Colombian and international human rights groups. And new research by two U.S. peace groups into the killings raises serious questions about whether the United States is doing enough, as required by law, to bar U.S. funding to Colombian military units that have elicited allegations of killings and other human rights violations.....

Amnesty International USA and the Fellowship of Reconciliation have found that the U.S. government "vetted" or approved military assistance to at least 11 Colombian armed forces units last year despite "credible allegations regarding killings, disappearances and collaboration with outlawed paramilitary forces," Renata Rendon of Amnesty International USA said in Washington this month."It's outrageous this is happening. It's up to the [U.S. government] to ensure that we are not providing aid to abusive units," Rendon said.....

While not responding specifically to the claims, an official at the U.S. Embassy in Bogota said this month that Colombian armed forces' killings of civilians were a "serious problem, a serious concern."

[FamilyGuy]

Thac0man

Stability is what is needed in the region

And what actions would you propose to bring an end to the narco terrorism of Uribe and the Colombian regime/Right Wing Death Squads? Surely you would agree that an end to their activities would be a major boost to stability in the region?

twtone, heres what the US thought of Uribe

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB131/index.htm

Alvaro Uribe Velez - A Colombian politician and Senator dedicated to colloboration with the Medellin cartel at High Government levels. Uribe was linked to a business involved in narcotics activity in the US......

Has worked for the Medellin cartel and is a close personal friend of Pablo Escobar Gaviria.

What do you think of that twtone?

[Thac0man]

twtone, heres what the US thought of Uribe

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB131/index.htm

Alvaro Uribe Velez - A Colombian politician and Senator dedicated to colloboration with the Medellin cartel at High Government levels. Uribe was linked to a business involved in narcotics activity in the US......

Has worked for the Medellin cartel and is a close personal friend of Pablo Escobar Gaviria.

What do you think of that twtone?

That is utter b*loox and you know it FG. The report, if you care to actually read the link rather than cherry pick it, says

As stated in the document, the report is "not finally evaluated" intelligence information.

I am not, and indeed do not have to defend Uribe, this document is little or no use, no matter who is is about. If you have a final evaluated report, then by all means post it. But your constant harping on about Uribe is strange because narco terrorism, torture, kidnap and indeed murder seem not to bother you at all when if is FARC doing it.

Your moral outrage can only bee seen as a sham as it is not universally applied to the crimes you claim to abhore and condemn, just people you choose to highlight for what ever reason.

[Thac0man]

Thac0man

Stability is what is needed in the region

And what actions would you propose to bring an end to the narco terrorism of Uribe and the Colombian regime/Right Wing Death Squads? Surely you would agree that an end to their activities would be a major boost to stability in the region?

I believe thousands of right wing death squad members are already in jail, voluntarily demobilised, others deported and those remaing in business are deemed illegal under Columbian law. All of that helps.

Now what about FARC? You are making alot of noise. Is it to distract from your strange ommision of them in almost every statement you make about Columbia? Seems so.

[Pax]

Or what about this narco-terror?

http://www.forcolombia.org/news/latimesexecutionsonrise

Human rights activists say the Feb. 17 death is part of a deadly phenomenon called "false positives" in which the armed forces allegedly kill civilians, usually peasants or unemployed youths, and brand them as leftist guerrillas.

A macabre facet of a general increase in "extrajudicial killings" by the military, "false positives" are a result of intense pressure to show progress in Colombia's U.S.-funded war against leftist insurgents, the activists say.......

All of which is a historical modus operandi of free-market, right-wing, US-supported dicatorships throughout Latin America since the 1970s. As graphically highlighted in "The Shock Doctrine",

http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine


There could be hope in the Colombian indigenous movement in Cauca....but then democratic hope is also a threat.

http://www.naomiklein.org/articles/2005 ... in-america

....All of this is happening because the indigenous movement in Cauca, as in much of Latin America, is on a roll. In the past year the Nasa of northern Cauca have held the largest antigovernment protests in recent Colombian history and organized local referendums against free trade that had a turnout of 70 percent, higher than any official election (with a near unanimous “no” result). And in September thousands took over two large haciendas, forcing the government to make good on a long-promised land settlement. All these actions unfolded under the protection of the Nasa’s unique Indigenous Guard, who patrol their territory armed only with sticks.

In a country ruled by M-16s, AK-47s, pipe bombs and Black Hawk helicopters, this combination of militancy and nonviolence is unheard of. And that is the quiet miracle the Nasa have accomplished: They revived the hope killed when paramilitaries systematically slaughtered left-wing politicians, including dozens of elected officials and two Unión Patriótica presidential candidates. At the end of the bloody campaign in the early nineties, the FARC understandably concluded that engaging in open politics was a suicide mission. The key to the Nasa’s success, Rozental says, is that they are not trying to take over state institutions, which “have lost all legitimacy.” They are instead “building a new legitimacy based on an indigenous and popular mandate that has grown out of participatory congresses, assemblies and elections. Our process and our alternative institutions have put the official democracy to shame. That’s why the government is so angry.”

The Nasa have shattered the illusion, cherished by both sides, that Colombia’s conflict can be reduced to a binary war. Their free-trade referendums have been imitated by nonindigenous unions, students, farmers and local politicians nationwide; their land takeovers have inspired other indigenous and peasant groups to do the same. A year ago 60,000 marched demanding peace and autonomy; last month those same demands were echoed by simultaneous marches in thirty-two of Colombia’s provinces. Each action, explains Hector Mondragon, well-known Colombian economist and activist, “has had a multiplier effect.”.

Across Latin America a similarly explosive multiplier effect is under way, with indigenous movements redrawing the continent’s political map, demanding not just “rights” but a reinvention of the state along deeply democratic lines. In Bolivia and Ecuador, indigenous groups have shown they have the power to topple governments. In Argentina, when mass protests ousted five presidents in 2001 and 2002, the words of Mexico’s Zapatistas were shouted on the streets of Buenos Aires....

As in Colombia, there are attempts across the continent to paint the indigenous-inspired movements behind this massive political shift as terrorist. And not surprisingly Washington is offering both military and ideological assistance. Congress has approved a doubling of the number of U.S. soldiers in Colombia and there has been a marked increase in U.S. troop activity in Paraguay, worryingly near to the Bolivian border, which could move decisively to the left in upcoming elections. Meanwhile, a recent study by the U.S. National Intelligence Council warned that indigenous movements, although peaceful now, could “consider more drastic means” in the future.

Indigenous movements are indeed a threat to the exhausted free-trade policies Bush is currently hawking, with ever fewer buyers, across Latin America. Their power comes not from terror but from a new terror-resistant strain of hope, one so sturdy it can take root in the midst of Colombia’s seemingly hopeless civil war. And if it can grow there, it can take root anywhere.

[FamilyGuy]

Thac0man

Stability is what is needed in the region

And what actions would you propose to bring an end to the narco terrorism of Uribe and the Colombian regime/Right Wing Death Squads? Surely you would agree that an end to their activities would be a major boost to stability in the region?

I believe thousands of right wing death squad members are already in jail, voluntarily demobilised, others deported and those remaing in business are deemed illegal under Columbian law. All of that helps.

Now what about FARC? You are making alot of noise. Is it to distract from your strange ommision of them in almost every statement you make about Columbia? Seems so.

You obviously havent taken the time to read my posts. I have mentioned FARC on numerous occasions on threads that you have been posting on. I have repeatedly made clear I do not support them and agree with Chavez calling on them to cease armed action. Go back and read instead of assuming things ThacOman.

And you didnt answer what I asked you. I asked you "what actions would you propose to bring an end to the narco terrorism of Uribe and the Colombian regime/Right Wing Death Squads?"

Uribe and his regime remain in power, and continuing to carry out their reign of terror against those that oppose them in collaboration with the Death Squads who are as active now as they ever were, in both murder and drug trafficking. So what actions should be taken to end the narco terrorism of Uribe and his regime?

[FamilyGuy]

ThacOman:

But your constant harping on about Uribe is strange because narco terrorism, torture, kidnap and indeed murder seem not to bother you at all when if is FARC doing it.

Wow ThacOman, now you have to stoop to twotones level and tell blatant lies. I have repeatedly stated I do not support FARC and have welcomed Chavez call. Retract that lie ThacOman

ThacOman

Your moral outrage can only bee seen as a sham as it is not universally applied to the crimes you claim to abhore and condemn, just people you choose to highlight for what ever reason

Actually ThacOman, I am opposed to the killing and drug trafficing in Colombia whether carried out by FARC or by the Uribe regime and his cronies in the Death Squads. Apparently you are not. You already told me in a previous thread that you didnt care about the atrocities carried out by Uribe and his regime. You were more concerned with Chavez enacting legislation than with Uribe having people massacred and engaging in Drug Trafficing with Right Wing Death Squads.

You havent commented on the comments by Senator Gustavo Petro. Is he wrong do you think? Is Uribe right to describe Democratic Pole as "terrorists"?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 44_pf.html

Authorities on Tuesday arrested former senator Mario Uribe, a cousin and close ally of President Álvaro Uribe, for alleged ties to death squads in a widening inquiry that has implicated nearly a quarter of Colombia's Congress.

The arrest of the former senator, who built a formidable political movement that helped his cousin win the presidency in 2002, comes during an institutional crisis that has tarnished a country closely allied with the United States.

As the result of investigations that began in 2006, 32 members of Congress have been arrested and about 30 others are being formally investigated for ties to paramilitary groups that killed thousands of civilians, infiltrated state institutions and trafficked cocaine to the United States. Preliminary investigations have begun against dozens of others, including the president of Congress, Nancy Patricia Gutiérrez, who was implicated last week.

"What we've seen happen is a de facto alliance between powerful economic interests and narco-traffickers, and the motives were to co-opt institutions and convert Colombia itself into a criminal enterprise," said Sen. Gustavo Petro, who has publicly denounced ties between his colleagues and paramilitary members. "Congress is one of the institutions that's been co-opted."

In the case of Mario Uribe's party, Democratic Colombia, five of six members who held seats in Congress have been accused of collaborating with paramilitary groups, with one member, Sen. Álvaro Garcia, charged with helping to organize a massacre

Any opinion on that article ThacOman?

Or what about this one?

http://www.forcolombia.org/news/latimesexecutionsonrise

Human rights activists say the Feb. 17 death is part of a deadly phenomenon called "false positives" in which the armed forces allegedly kill civilians, usually peasants or unemployed youths, and brand them as leftist guerrillas.

A macabre facet of a general increase in "extrajudicial killings" by the military, "false positives" are a result of intense pressure to show progress in Colombia's U.S.-funded war against leftist insurgents, the activists say.......

Such killings have spread terror here in the central state of Meta. Last year the state led Colombia in documented cases of extrajudicial killings, with 287 civilians allegedly slain by the military, according to the Colombian Commission of Jurists, a human rights group. That's a 10% increase from the previous year.....

The killings have increased in recent years amid an emphasis on rebel death tolls as the leading indicator of military success, the human rights groups say. Even Colombian officials acknowledge that soldiers and their commanders have been given cash and promotions for upping their units' body counts......

But at the same time, the military's human rights record is getting worse, charged a coalition of Colombian and international human rights groups. And new research by two U.S. peace groups into the killings raises serious questions about whether the United States is doing enough, as required by law, to bar U.S. funding to Colombian military units that have elicited allegations of killings and other human rights violations.....

Amnesty International USA and the Fellowship of Reconciliation have found that the U.S. government "vetted" or approved military assistance to at least 11 Colombian armed forces units last year despite "credible allegations regarding killings, disappearances and collaboration with outlawed paramilitary forces," Renata Rendon of Amnesty International USA said in Washington this month."It's outrageous this is happening. It's up to the [U.S. government] to ensure that we are not providing aid to abusive units," Rendon said.....

While not responding specifically to the claims, an official at the U.S. Embassy in Bogota said this month that Colombian armed forces' killings of civilians were a "serious problem, a serious concern."

[twtone]

ThacOman:

"I believe thousands of right wing death squad members are already in jail, voluntarily demobilised, others deported and those remaing in business are deemed illegal under Columbian law. All of that helps."

You're dead right there. Except that I wouldn't say "deported"--they were extradited to the US on drugs charges. Both the paras and the FARC have a real aversion to taking that trip to the US.... I wonder why? I guess they know they won't be coming home for a long long time.

I wouldnt waste my time on that moonie you've been addressing here. You are quite right, though, to suspect he is a sneaking regarder for the FARC narcomurderers. I looked up that English site that he relies on for most of his "information". I noticed they described Green Party leader Ingrid Betancourt as having been "detained" by the FARC.

What a disgusting perversion of language. The lady was kidnapped six years ago when she made the error of thinking she could go to the FARC lair and negotiate with them.
Six years shackled in the jungle. A beautiful vibrant woman, guilty of nothing except naivete. Where's that oaf's talk about human rights abuses now?

http://mx.news.yahoo.com/foto/23052008/ ... court.html

[FamilyGuy]

You have gone very quiet twtone in relation to the articles about Uribe and his regimes involvement in murder, torture and drug trafficing. Nothing to say?

What about the Democratic Pole twtone? What do you think of them now? Are they "terrorists" like Uribe claims? Is that not a perversion of language?