TIBET: Western world falling for Communist Partys tricks

[Undercover Reporter]

Hi Folks,

In the last few days China has played a very disturbing game Re: Tibet and the western governments and people have fallen for it (myself included).

One of the things they have done is use the word 'riot' for what happened in Tibet. Where as what is most likely the correct word is rebellion against Chinese rule in their region. Their is a gulf of difference between the two, civilised people can support a rebellion but not a riot. All our press and gov officals fell for this hook line and sinker.

Another thing is they tried to say that the Dali clique planned the events. The western world was slower to swallow this one because it is not believable but still westerner newspapers published this nonsense.

What was even more telling was the extremely violent language of the Communist party leaders. Violence comes out of every single word:

In his own words: Tibet Communist party leader Zhang Qingli:
The Dalai Lama "a wolf wrapped in monk's robes, a devil with a human face and a beast's heart."
"We are in the midst of a fierce struggle involving blood and fire, a life-and-death struggle with the Dalai clique."


Finally pay attention to the western leaders who come out and say something as a natural reaction to a horrendous crime only to backtrack later. The French foreign minister is an example, calling for a boycott and then changing its mind, as if he suggestion was an unfair response. The Brittish PM was in for a similar backlash from the CCP when he made his statements.

It is very important to remember that this is not the fault of the Chinese people or something that is inate in them. It comes from communist party doctrine and has been seen in the past in other countries.

The Chinese Rejime can look very nice in their suits when they fly around the world for high profile meetings but incidents like what is happening in Tibet shows their true colours and we should take notice.

Any views on this?

[JCSkinner]

http://skinflicks.blogspot.com/2008/03/ ... f-end.html
http://skinflicks.blogspot.com/2008/03/ ... etans.html
http://skinflicks.blogspot.com/2008/03/ ... rning.html
http://skinflicks.blogspot.com/2007/05/ ... tibet.html

Those would be my views. But in short, I think people in the West are sufficiently aware to be able to spot the CCP propaganda when they see it.
I just hope that the Western powers will start showing more solidarity with the Tibetans. Nancy Pelosi posing in Dharamsala is one thing. But like you, I'd like to see some strong words and statements, never mind actions, that weren't backtracked after a ranting phonecall from the Beijing junta.

[evercloserunion]

First of all I am not a fan of China's system or the Chinese "Communist" Party at all. But come on. It began as a protest, and then people began torching cars and shops. That's not a rebellion, that's a riot.

Tibet is not as black and white an issue as the West tries so desperately to portray it. I'm not sure how I feel about it to be honest. While China's occupation of Tibet is very easy to criticize, the fact of the matter is that, objectively, most Tibetans are better off under Chinese rule than they were under the Dalai Lama's rule. And I think it shows, after all the main protagonists of the Tibetan independence movement are Buddhist monks, and what Tibetans had before Chinese rule was pretty much a de facto theocracy with very reactionary politics. Furthermore I don't buy the Western myth that all Tibetans want independence and Lama rule, I imagine it's probably a vocal minority who are on the streets burning out shops and cars.

[JCSkinner]

Where to begin with that nonsense? It's a rebellion, Red Star. Of course it's a rebellion. By your logic, Easter 1916 was a riot too.
The Dalai Lama's rule? He left when he was 15 years old! He never got to rule, and Tibetan culture didn't work like that anyhow. People were traditionally nomadic and worked around a matriarchal family structure.
The Chinese did indeed bring airports and roads and the railway. All of which assists the Han in colonising Tibet. Doesn't particularly benefit the average Tibetan at all.
Nor did the cultural revolution, the many famines, the theft of land, the closing of monasteries, the murders, the slave prison camps, and so on.
You don't need to buy any Western myths, Red Star since you're so clearly bought into the CCP one already.
You'll be spouting about Dalai Cliques next, and claiming that the people who queued up on Qinhua to sign confessions did so voluntarily.

[Squire Allworthy]

RedStar

Visit China and keep your eyes wide open. This is not a benevolent regime. It is an oppressive dictatorship. Most people are afraid to say what they think.

There is an argument that we can change China (the Regime) by pursueing our current path of trade. I am not so sure.

If we do nothing a lot of people are going to die. and the regime will tighten its grip.

It is a real shame I like doing business with Chinese as individuals but despise that regime.

[bogtrotter]

What can we as ordinary citizens do to stop the Chinese using superior force in Tibet or the Americans using superior force in Iraq or Afghanastan....Nothing because these 2 countries are the most powerful in the world and control world trade as well.....Whether it is a riot or a rebellion is a matter of opinion depending on how you view the world...Some think Capitalism is the answer others believe it to be Communism, Some people call freedom fighters heroes others call them terrorists.

Look at conflicts around the world over the last few years (including our own here in Ireland) and ask yourself if your views or opinions on each of them is based on a consistency or on personal prejudice....

Just my thoughts this good friday.....

[evercloserunion]

Where to begin with that nonsense? It's a rebellion, Red Star. Of course it's a rebellion. By your logic, Easter 1916 was a riot too.

Don't be silly, they don't compare. Easter 1916 was an organized, planned armed uprising by a militia which seized strategic targets to be used as a base for combating the British Military. Compare this to Tibet, where some pissed off protesters started randomly burning cars and shops.

The Dalai Lama's rule? He left when he was 15 years old! He never got to rule, and Tibetan culture didn't work like that anyhow. People were traditionally nomadic and worked around a matriarchal family structure.

But there were other Dalai Lamas. Dalai Lama rule in general has tended to be quite theocratic and monarchistic. And how does the nomadic and matriarchal family structure of Tibet mean that Tibetan culture "doesn't work that way"? If anything cultural backwardness sits better with reactionary politics.

The Chinese did indeed bring airports and roads and the railway. All of which assists the Han in colonising Tibet. Doesn't particularly benefit the average Tibetan at all.

I disagree, I haven't been to Tibet but I fail to see how an abundance of roads, airports and railways will fail to benefit the average person. You've just admitted that the Chinese greatly developed the infrastructure of Tibet, which can only be a positive thing really.

Nor did the cultural revolution, the many famines, the theft of land, the closing of monasteries, the murders, the slave prison camps, and so on.
You don't need to buy any Western myths, Red Star since you're so clearly bought into the CCP one already.
You'll be spouting about Dalai Cliques next, and claiming that the people who queued up on Qinhua to sign confessions did so voluntarily.

I was originally reluctant to post in this thread because I was weary of exactly this kind of emotional backlash. Just letting you know, I'm not going to respond to any rhetoric of this nature in the future, I'm sick of it, so you can save your energy.

Reply with quote Report post
RedStar

Visit China and keep your eyes wide open. This is not a benevolent regime. It is an oppressive dictatorship. Most people are afraid to say what they think.

There is an argument that we can change China (the Regime) by pursueing our current path of trade. I am not so sure.

If we do nothing a lot of people are going to die. and the regime will tighten its grip.

It is a real shame I like doing business with Chinese as individuals but despise that regime.

Point taken. Though I think the US probably blow the evils of the Chinese dictatorship out of proportion, there is no doubt that it is a very corrupt and malevolent state. I'm just saying that from a Tibetan point of view there are pros and cons to both sides.

[Squire Allworthy]

Point taken. Though I think the US probably blow the evils of the Chinese dictatorship out of proportion, there is no doubt that it is a very corrupt and malevolent state. I'm just saying that from a Tibetan point of view there are pros and cons to both sides.

In a sense you are right about the US and others making much of the evils of the regime, but it does not help when there is real substance that they can work on. Many would have a vested interest in seeing regime change and a weaker China. Foreign policy is merely a projection and buttressing of a countries self interest.

I have had reason to visit there from time to time and had with me an 'associate' quietly fluent in Mandarin. It is a country with great potential and an industrious population but it really is as you put it, "a very corrupt and malevolent state."

I have absolutely no doubt that the rights of the average Chinese citizen count for nothing. I have no axe to grind regarding the virtues of capitalism versus communism or socialism, they have all got merits and failings, but that regime is has nothing to do with idealism and a lot to do with controlling and maintaining itself in power for the good of itself. (The same could be said about some of the Western Democracies but at least we are unlikely to be shot if we have a protest camp).

The regime will fall some day but it could be a very mess affair. Hopefully it will fade quietly.

[JCSkinner]

I'm going to keep this brief, Red Star.
There is cast-iron evidence that the rioting in Lhasa was largely conducted by Chinese military operating undercover in order to justify the crackdown that is now underway. This has been discussed elsewhere on this site.
Secondly, as the infrastructure the Chinese brought to Tibet was done so to facilitate mass-scale invasion and settlement by Han Chinese, it has not benefited the Tibetans and has actually caused them much harm.
And if you're going to compare like with like, then compare the contemporary Dalai Lama's overseeing of the government in exile in Dharamsala with contemporary Beijing. Or compare earlier Tibetan theocracy with the rule of Mao. Either way, the Tibetans do not benefit from Chinese occupation.
Anyhow, the Tibetans are not seeking a theocracy. They are seeking self-determination. And it is their right to determine what shape that takes.

[irishpeoplearewhingers]

First of all I am not a fan of China's system or the Chinese "Communist" Party at all. But come on. It began as a protest, and then people began torching cars and shops. That's not a rebellion, that's a riot.

Tibet is not as black and white an issue as the West tries so desperately to portray it. I'm not sure how I feel about it to be honest. While China's occupation of Tibet is very easy to criticize, the fact of the matter is that, objectively, most Tibetans are better off under Chinese rule than they were under the Dalai Lama's rule. And I think it shows, after all the main protagonists of the Tibetan independence movement are Buddhist monks, and what Tibetans had before Chinese rule was pretty much a de facto theocracy with very reactionary politics. Furthermore I don't buy the Western myth that all Tibetans want independence and Lama rule, I imagine it's probably a vocal minority who are on the streets burning out shops and cars.

you should actually go there