Possible upcoming major ground operation in the Gaza strip

[Objecteev]

Winning, I am not so sure. Its borders are far from secure and its long term sustainability dependent on ongoing miliaty and political support from the US, which may change. Also since the fist infitada when the IDF were clearly filmed again and again shooting unarmed civilians and there actions in the Lebanon in 2006 they are probably the most despised nation in the world.

Israel simply needs to make peace with its neighbors and stop killing them.

The first problem is that borders are not so clear in all parts. Part of the problem is that there are internal lines between Israel and Palestinian territories which are not borders really. To further secure them, the wall is built, which raises opposition and controversy. So thats one issue. Other than that, borders are more secure than many other two territories which are at war/conflict (I refer to the Lebanese border and syrian). Egyptian border is not so bad and the Jordanian is good. This is regarding borders.

I don't see the longevity of Israel depending directly on the western world support (there are other factors at the moment which prevent the annihilation of Israel) but the status is indeed dependant upon many factors such as the US support. Having said that, many countries safety is also affected by both the fact that some of the world's heat is released in Israel's area in the middle east and upon Israeli intelligence services. You should be more concerned about Chinese invasion to neighboring counties than about Israel being overrun by Hammas (let others worry about that bit )

As for your last point, I have failed to see what you refer to about IDF shooting innocent people knowingly and point blank, which at the same time I see every day now how Israelis are shot at with missiles without any remorse.

As for which nation being the most despised, this is not a popularity contest, and the fact that you fail to see that shows a bit how people view the situation. Israel is not about to embark on a military campain (or refrain from doing so) because of the way it will reflect on its Eurovision scoring. It is acting to defend the lives if its people, a concept which is so so very utterly foreign to you (luckily for you) it seems, that might explain why I feel you fail to relate to the issue in a true way.

[Objecteev]

This Ethnic cleansing that the Israeli government did against the Jewish settlers there backlashed and it should be a sign about any other future deportations.

This wasn't ethnic cleansing. It was evacuation of mostly illegal occupants of military controlled lands. It wasn't ethnic and it wasn't cleansing.
It had both positive and negative effect. With it, indeed there were security related drawbacks. It however was morally necessary and justified. Noone should sit on a land by force and not state/country law (regardless of who agrees with this law) and evacuating these territories gave Israel higher moral grounds and justification for many things that followed.

[soubresauts]

Do you have any immediate suggestions as to how to rid of the need for such a measure taken by Israel?

You're assuming that there is a need for a "major ground operation" in Gaza by the IDF. In other words, a massive invasion using overwhelming military superiority, just as the Americans did in Iraq. That would kill and injure enormous numbers of innocent civilians. It would be collective punishment. It would also turn many young Palestinians into committed terrorists, with no purpose in life except to follow the al-Qaida agenda. Who needs that?

On the other hand, there is a need for the Israeli Government to start treating the Palestinians as human beings, something that ex-President Jimmy Carter, among others, has been pointing out recently.

[Objecteev]

Do you have any immediate suggestions as to how to rid of the need for such a measure taken by Israel?

You're assuming that there is a need for a "major ground operation" in Gaza by the IDF. In other words, a massive invasion using overwhelming military superiority, just as the Americans did in Iraq. That would kill and injure enormous numbers of innocent civilians. It would be collective punishment. It would also turn many young Palestinians into committed terrorists, with no purpose in life except to follow the al-Qaida agenda. Who needs that?

On the other hand, there is a need for the Israeli Government to start treating the Palestinians as human beings, something that ex-President Jimmy Carter, among others, has been pointing out recently.

So you suggest that the proper response to 20-40 rockets a day fired on cities in Israel, by a terrorist organization who cares little about Israeli agenda or the way it treats civilians in Gaza (funny, when this organization is treating them worse..) is to openly and evidently treat civilians as humans...
and that will stop the rockets? In a day? or two? or 10? or 100?

If you ask me what I assume, I assume there is zero relation, if not negative, between the way anyone (Israel included) treat Palestinian civilians now and the Hammas firing rockets at Israeli cities in the forseable future, and there is no negative correlation between Israel accepting/talking to the Hammas and Israel's and Palestinians chances for long/medium term peace, quiet and normal life.

"Jimmy's carter"'s suggestion (which is not so much a novelty, but rather something so many before and after him said gazillion times, is simple and logical one. We should all treat every human ans human (not that human being is such a great thing though). I second that idea.

If Carter on the other hand is suggesting talking with Al-Quaeda, Taliban, Hammas and the lot about how to live together peacefully, he needs a complete physical.

My suggestion for a "need" for large scale operation, is actually not voiced in this thread as my own opinion, but the IDF/Israeli security forces view.
Relentless, non-stopping rockets fired at your cities though... I think it warrants a brute force action in today's world (even if in parallel to other more political measures as well).

Lastly, what many counties in the world did in Iraq (maybe your country as well? as it wasn't the US alone, last I checked) is different than what I suggest is likely to occur in Gaza. I think I said that before.
The coalition forces bombed the hell out of Iraq in the first few days.. did you forget that? I on the other hand, hinted a ground operation as a main course. I suggested that it is likely to be an in/out operation. The coalition was there to stay for a long time. I wasn't mentioning an invasion but rather a ground operation to dismantle forces and leave. Enough people are suffering now without such an operation. What makes you think they don't suffer more? And lastly, the situation in Iraq was pretty horrid before the US moved in, and is described to be quite horrid now where almost all the killings are done by Iraqis on other Iraqis. Again, different story.

Totally different stories.
Think about it.

Your suggestion is noted though. Treating the civilian population properly is a good concept in my own opinion. However, at the same time I don't think it has anything to do with the current situation and will have no effect (or negative one) on it. I fail to see such a course of action having any effect on Hammas whatsoever or preventing/delaying a wider action by IDF.

[Akrasia]

To be honest, at this stage it'd probably be a blessing for the Palestinians suffering under Hamas brutality and ineptitude to have Israel come in and take over the whole place.

That would be the worst option for Israel. I'm in no doubt that the gazans wan=t israel to retake Gaza. When Israel was there the gazans had work, they could travel, they had access to health care, schools etc. And they also had the excuse to attack israel because israel was occupying their land. All that's gone now. All that's left in gaza is empty factories and shops, no jobs, no health care, limited power and fuel and young men with machine guns, stoned out of their heads, patroling the streets of gaza at night looking to punish improperly dressed young girls.

I hope that Israel sticks to counter attacks and reducing power and fuel to the whole area of gaza. The people in Gaza are no longer Israel's responsibility. The worst thing Israel could do would be to retake that area. leave them to their own devices and keep them out of Israel. Let them get their fuel and electricity from Egypt. Who cares as long as Israel isn't expected to supply them with fuel and power while they continue to attack Israel. Make sure the border remains sealed. Make hamas pay for their actions, but come back out and seal the border behind you. That's what I hope Israel does.

thats it, you're insane. its the only way you could possibly consider maintaining and strengthening a siege and economic blockade could in any way be considered a disengagement or as dissolving your responsibility for the fate of the palestinians

[Keith-M]

To be honest, at this stage it'd probably be a blessing for the Palestinians suffering under Hamas brutality and ineptitude to have Israel come in and take over the whole place.

It is unlikely that Israel will stay in Gaza. This will probably be an "in and out" operation. So it is a big question - what will happen after.

I would agree, lessons have to be learnt. Israel knows where the Hamas terrorists are to be found. Get in there, strike hard quickly and then get out of the place. Why should Israel put the lives of military at risk for the welfare of Palestinians, the majority of whom (at least in Gaza) have supported terrorists?

[L'Chaim]

Once it happens, following constant missile attacks into city centers in Israel from Hammas in the Gaza strip and ineffective attempts of the IDF to neutralize it from the air, it is very likely that a major ground assault by IDF targeting Hammas in the Gaza strip is to be executed in the near future.

(Anyone wants to be surprised already now as if the writing was not on the wall?)

Anyway, such a move will inflict much more harm on the innocent civilian population as well, and will likely be followed by an attempt of the Hammas to continue attacks on Israeli cities during and after the attack.

Few things I wonder about.
Will you really be surprised about such a move?
Do you have any immediate suggestions as to how to rid of the need for such a measure taken by Israel?
What do you think will be the outcome and what will be the prostepcts of such an action and for the future of the Palestinian population in the Gaza strip?
Do you expect the Palestinian authority be able to retake power from the Hammas and stabilize the situation after?
Any other thoughts (or pre-condemnations about the illegitimacy of Israel's self defense?)

It's a possibility, but I really hope the Israelis don't invade. They have shown that they have infiltrated Hamas at a very high level which allows them to target the terrorists and kill them. Maybe they should keep that policy going. It's working for them at the moment. Hamas seem to be reeling from these targeted killings by Israel and they seem to be out of touch with what's happening on the ground. They are being criticized in gaza for the way they have been distributing humanitarian aid and only giving it to their own supporters. This is not making them popular. They have also ruined gaza Palestinian ties with every government in the world with the exception of Syria and Iran. The ordinary people of Gaza are paying a terrible price for where hamas has led them.

The thing is, Hamas is not a responsible authority. They have a stubborn and unrealistic political position. They opted for isolation and the ordinary Gazans are paying the price. The only way they can ratchet up support is if Israel invades Gaza. And that's what they are probably hoping will happen. Personally I hope Israel doesn't invade, but if they do I will be 100% supportive of them. And if they do invade then do the job and get back out. Don't atay there. We don't need any future palestinian terrorists using 'occupation' as an excuse